Anxiety About This Experience with a Customer

[Tom Dunlap]

I'm saying the passenger vehicle may be giving some folk a little worry.

on the extreme end of that a guy in my area drove a ‘Vette.

many times people would mention, without me even asking, that they got a bid from a guy in a Corvette...with a little spit in their voice. They didn’t like that and I sold many jobs...driving an E250 van lettered up with my company info.

Based on the description of the clients reception I’d tend towards leaving gracefully. Their expectations seem out of phase with reality. I’d see them expecting that the sawdust be vacuumed out the grass...unrealistic

 

[ATH]

I don't think he is calling you a hack, only stating that to SOME customers, they want to see the fancy equipment so they feel like they are getting their money's worth. Reputation is always best, but if a customer doesn't already know your reputation, 'image' might be all they have to go on.

Alternative view: I see a company (any, not just tree) rolling with brand new everything I think one of 2 things:
1) they are in debt up to their eyes and 2 slow months away from being out
2) they are charging too much to pay for shiny paint when another company can do the same thing for less money.

Equipment should be good and functional, not always breaking down...but there is a long way between brand new and not functioning.

 

[Jonny]

As the business grows, another truck or two is bound to come into play. A dump trailer is really a damn versatile piece of gear for a young or established company. I want one.

 

[climbingmonkey24]

As I said, I am not saying anything negative about your company or your skills, I am simply trying to give you an alternative perspective to consider based on my experiences in this area. I’m glad to hear you have not had any trouble with your setup before, and it seems like a fine setup for pruning to me, and even what would be “smaller” removals around here. We live in the area of big eastern hardwoods, so our day to day is removing trees 30”+ diameter and 80”+ tall, just to give you a little perspective where I’m coming from.

We don’t get involved with removal of huge trees but to give you some perspective, we have done some large storm damage cleanups and also some small-medium sized removals where we have easily fit everything into the dump. Dump trailers can hold way more than they look from the outside when you know how to properly pack the material in there.

The other thing that actually can be a plus for some clients is they like the fact that my equipment is not extremely heavy. I’ve had people tell me before how they’ve had tree services who’s equipment damaged their property, etc. And I get it on real large removals, there may be some yard damage etc.

But if a customer is looking to have some tree pruning done and is only spending let’s say for example $400-$500 don’t you think it’s a plus and more assurance for them to be told in advance that they won’t have to worry about any heavy equipment being brought into property?

If you can afford the bigger equipment and have the work for it great, but for mainly pruning work that is done by climbing from a business and cost perspective it is far less expensive to have a dump trailer with a small chipper than multiple big trucks, etc.

 

[Reach]

We don’t get involved with removal of huge trees but to give you some perspective, we have done some large storm damage cleanups and also some small-medium sized removals where we have easily fit everything into the dump. Dump trailers can hold way more than they look from the outside when you know how to properly pack the material in there.

The other thing that actually can be a plus for some clients is they like the fact that my equipment is not extremely heavy. I’ve had people tell me before how they’ve had tree services who’s equipment damaged their property, etc. And I get it on real large removals, there may be some yard damage etc.

But if a customer is looking to have some tree pruning done and is only spending let’s say for example $400-$500 don’t you think it’s a plus and more assurance for them to be told in advance that they won’t have to worry about any heavy equipment being brought into property?

If you can afford the bigger equipment and have the work for it great, but for mainly pruning work that is done by climbing from a business and cost perspective it is far less expensive to have a dump trailer with a small chipper than multiple big trucks, etc.

Sounds to me like you know what you’re doing, and where your target market is. That’s great, keep going after them! once you know where your target is, what you do best, you can go after it and you won’t be getting in over your head or losing money all the time on projects that aren’t within your specialty.

The smaller equipment is very much an advantage for pruning and small removals, we don’t usually do many smaller pruning projects like that because we are over-equipped and tend to be too expensive because of our equipment.

 

[climbingmonkey24]

Sounds to me like you know what you’re doing, and where your target market is. That’s great, keep going after them! once you know where your target is, what you do best, you can go after it and you won’t be getting in over your head or losing money all the time on projects that aren’t within your specialty.

The smaller equipment is very much an advantage for pruning and small rwe don’t usually do many smaller pruning projects like that because we are over-equipped and tend to be too expensive because of our equipment.

I chose to focus on pruning because I enjoy those types of jobs. That’s my niche so to speak. I’ve turned down plenty of work that I either don’t want to get into or I think is better suited to a company with bigger equipment and I have no second thoughts about doing that.

 

[Reach]

I chose to focus on pruning because I enjoy those types of jobs. That’s my niche so to speak. I’ve turned down plenty of work that I either don’t want to get into or I think is better suited to a company with bigger equipment and I have no second thoughts about doing that.

That’s good. Far too many people out there who don’t know their specialties and just want to take on everything. If you have the skills to prune well, that makes you a specialist at a higher level than most. Especially around here, where topping is still a standard practice, and half the “tree guyz” prune with their spikes on.

 

[96coal449]

on the extreme end of that a guy in my area drove a ‘Vette.

many times people would mention, without me even asking, that they got a bid from a guy in a Corvette...with a little spit in their voice. They didn’t like that and I sold many jobs...driving an E250 van lettered up with my company info.

Based on the description of the clients reception I’d tend towards leaving gracefully. Their expectations seem out of phase with reality. I’d see them expecting that the sawdust be vacuumed out the grass...unrealistic

Yes ..... I understand that, Some customers are completely out of hand. I, for one, have no qualms telling one such.

Speaking of sawdust I know of a local story of an old lady who wouldn't pay an old timer for the removal preformed. She wanted the sawdust out of her grass for a complete removal. No joke! and this was before the days of shop vacs. Picture 5 guys crawling on their hands and knees so a couple grand could be collected.

For the record, I wasn't referring to what the estimate vehicle was involved, but the actual work fleet.
I have sold jobs wearing less than desirable T-shirts. Either way it's all an image thing. That's all I was trying to point out.

 

[96coal449]

Either way it's all an image thing

To the OPs particular customer.

 

[Benjo75]

We bid a job years ago in a fancy gated neighborhood known for being hard to deal with and picky. We made it clear that it was a big tree and we needed big equipment to remove it unless they wanted to pay us to split it into firewood and carry it out that way. Told them there wouldn't be any noticeable lawn damage. Just prints in the grass. That was fine. Given the 2 prices they decided to let us use our equipment. We showed up and I grabbed a ladder, which I hate, to get on the roof to trim some smaller limbs that were touching the roof before we backed the bucket in there. The woman comes out already mad and wanting to know what I'm going to do with that ladder. I tell her. Still mad she says I cant use the ladder because it will leave dents in her grass. We load everything back up and tell her goodbye and drive off. I've had several calls from that neighborhood wanting us to work there. I tell them I won't even give them an estimate since I've had so much trouble in that area. They say that all the contractors say the same thing. It's a very wealthy retirement community and a lot of money to be made there. But it's not worth the headache.

Last week we worked for a customer who was determined to be there while we worked. Fine by me. He rescheduled a vacation and was walking towards the truck when we drove up. Pecking on the window and talking through the glass. Yes one of those types. As soon as I opened the door he's barking out orders, giving directions and telling me where to park the bucket and where to load the brush. None of which would work. He kept telling us he had to be there so when we screw up and fall a tree on the house he will be there to take care of it. After hearing this for about the third time I tell him that one of the reasons doctors put patients to sleep is so they won't be trying to help and asking questions while the doctor is trying to work. Then I tell him that absolutely no one is allowed within 200 feet of my crew, our equipment, the trees and the jobsite while we're working and I'll knock on the door when we're finished to let him inspect it. He didn't like it but he finally left us alone. He was really wanting to be under us while we're dropping limbs I guess. A lot of our customers just know that we simply could not function and would go out of business without their input and help. Turns out he'd had a bad experience once before with a tree service. I asked him a little about it. Turns out he called everyone in 3 counties and went with the cheapest bid. Go figure. After we were finished he was happy and we got 4 other jobs from his neighbors who were all secretly watching our every move.

 

[Reach]

We bid a job years ago in a fancy gated neighborhood known for being hard to deal with and picky. We made it clear that it was a big tree and we needed big equipment to remove it unless they wanted to pay us to split it into firewood and carry it out that way. Told them there wouldn't be any noticeable lawn damage. Just prints in the grass. That was fine. Given the 2 prices they decided to let us use our equipment. We showed up and I grabbed a ladder, which I hate, to get on the roof to trim some smaller limbs that were touching the roof before we backed the bucket in there. The woman comes out already mad and wanting to know what I'm going to do with that ladder. I tell her. Still mad she says I cant use the ladder because it will leave dents in her grass. We load everything back up and tell her goodbye and drive off. I've had several calls from that neighborhood wanting us to work there. I tell them I won't even give them an estimate since I've had so much trouble in that area. They say that all the contractors say the same thing. It's a very wealthy retirement community and a lot of money to be made there. But it's not worth the headache.

Last week we worked for a customer who was determined to be there while we worked. Fine by me. He rescheduled a vacation and was walking towards the truck when we drove up. Pecking on the window and talking through the glass. Yes one of those types. As soon as I opened the door he's barking out orders, giving directions and telling me where to park the bucket and where to load the brush. None of which would work. He kept telling us he had to be there so when we screw up and fall a tree on the house he will be there to take care of it. After hearing this for about the third time I tell him that one of the reasons doctors put patients to sleep is so they won't be trying to help and asking questions while the doctor is trying to work. Then I tell him that absolutely no one is allowed within 200 feet of my crew, our equipment, the trees and the jobsite while we're working and I'll knock on the door when we're finished to let him inspect it. He didn't like it but he finally left us alone. He was really wanting to be under us while we're dropping limbs I guess. A lot of our customers just know that we simply could not function and would go out of business without their input and help. Turns out he'd had a bad experience once before with a tree service. I asked him a little about it. Turns out he called everyone in 3 counties and went with the cheapest bid. Go figure. After we were finished he was happy and we got 4 other jobs from his neighbors who were all secretly watching our every move.

Wow! The ladder-prints in the lawn is a new one, I’m not sure we’ve had one quite that bad. Retirement communities are the worst, especially the gated ones, because everyone is always home and they have nothing better to do than to watch and complain.

We have used a crane though to lift out a simple little stick of a tree just so no branches would have to fall in the lawn. The homeowner about had a cow though when we backed it in the driveway, they thought we would set it up on the road, 100’ away. They’ve called us back since and even paid for us to do some work at a neighbor’s house down the street.

 

[ATH]

I chose to focus on pruning because I enjoy those types of jobs. That’s my niche so to speak. I’ve turned down plenty of work that I either don’t want to get into or I think is better suited to a company with bigger equipment and I have no second thoughts about doing that.

We do the same. I don't even go look at a job when somebody calls about a removal. I have no problem doing a $200 job. 2 of us with very little equipment/overhead can knock that out at the end of the day on our way home from one bigger job or several small jobs. If were were rolling with $400K on the road, it would be hard to justify making that stop. Nothing against those that do focus on bigger removals...just not our niche either.

 

[colb]

That’s good. Far too many people out there who don’t know their specialties and just want to take on everything. If you have the skills to prune well, that makes you a specialist at a higher level than most. Especially around here, where topping is still a standard practice, and half the “tree guyz” prune with their spikes on.

I take on most everything except disease diagnostics, lawn mowing, and hazard trees without TIPs in adjacent trees. It may be a pain in the ass occassionally, but I'm having a great time. I have yet to nail a karikomi estimate...

 

[Merle Nelson]

climbingmonkey24 in reading through this thread you respond defensively to some thoughts shared. I suspect that is more because you care so much about your business and customer relations than it is because a persons views were all that far off the mark. I would urge you to come back and re-read this thread from time to time to see if your views of things adjust over time.

You know your target market to a large degree, that's great. I focus mostly on pruning but do a bunch of removals too - when my target market needs them. My target market is grateful clients who value quality work above all else.

One of the lessons I had to learn was when to "fire" a client. When I finally learned this lesson I started earning a lot more money and feeling far more rewarded (appreciated) for the work I did do.

All depends on the type of business you most want.

 

[climbingmonkey24]

And how do you let go of a customer, fire a customer, walk away from a job after already showing up because customer is giving you a hard time, without worrying about them going online and giving you a bad review? Reputation is everything right? We work hard to build those positive reviews and positive reputation. One person who is unreasonable can go and bash you and make it out like you did something wrong and that people shouldn’t hire you. It’s been shown that even one negative review can cost you future business.

 

[Reach]

And how do you let go of a customer, fire a customer, walk away from a job after already showing up because customer is giving you a hard time, without worrying about them going online and giving you a bad review? Reputation is everything right? We work hard to build those positive reviews and positive reputation. One person who is unreasonable can go and bash you and make it out like you did something wrong and that people shouldn’t hire you. It’s been shown that even one negative review can cost you future business.

Yes, one person can go online and write a bad review. That is true. However, if you already have 20,30,40+ excellent reviews, one bad review is not going to make a difference. Any reasonable person would see that one bad review and discount it figuring that there’s bad apple customers out there too. Besides, people who are out to make trouble usually make it pretty clear in their reviews that they are just out for trouble, and often times they have written two dozen other bad reviews. If I see one or two random bad reviews on a company, I will check to see what kind of other reviews that person has written - if they only wrote bad reviews everywhere else, I ignore them.

Two personal examples for you: we had a customer a few months back comment that he hired us because we had one bad review mixed in with our 50+ good reviews that he had found. He said that proved to him that we are a real company, not just one out buying reviews.
We recently had another customer threaten to write bad reviews of us all over the internet and even said he would put up signs in his yard to tell his neighbors how bad we were - all because he did not actually read his contract. He was angry that we would not give him $1000+ in free landscaping work that he wanted. It’s not in the contract, it’s not included. Well, so far he has written no bad reviews, and I haven’t been to his neighborhood to see if he put up signs, but his two other neighbors we have worked for both still like us, so I’m not too worried.

 

[VenasNursery]

No offense, and I realize it's not the tools you use but that does give you an image of a backyard mechanic.
Again, no offense. I'm sure you're more than capable for the task at hand. To some customers .....image is everything.

Unfortunately.

A job is like a balanced well running machine
Every gear turns each other
When one fails the machine doesn’t perform as well

Great machinery
Great employees
Great owner
Great customer

GREAT OUTCOME

 

[96coal449]

And how do you let go of a customer, fire a customer, walk away from a job after already showing up because customer is giving you a hard time, without worrying about them going online and giving you a bad review? Reputation is everything right? We work hard to build those positive reviews and positive reputation. One person who is unreasonable can go and bash you and make it out like you did something wrong and that people shouldn’t hire you. It’s been shown that even one negative review can cost you future business.

" seems like you are not interested in the service I'm able to provide, good day."

This is the best way to dismiss a potential client. Before any work is preformed. Just like you already have.
The clients you decide to walk away from after work is started, are those to have impacting negative reviews.
Depending how far into the job you already are. You can't please everyone. It's unavoidable.
When you continually do good work and have a good client base, you will always have work.

 

[climbingmonkey24]

This is the best way to dismiss a potential client. Before any work is preformed. Just like you already have.
The clients you decide to walk away from after work is started, are those to have impacting negative reviews.
Depending how far into the job you already are. You can't please everyone. It's unavoidable.
When you continually do good work and have a good client base, you will always have work.

We didn’t actually get the chance to start any work. We didn’t do anything except move our damn equipment back and forth.

They told me they still wanted me to do the job but if I wasn’t interested they’d just find someone else. I told them I was interested and would be in touch and since then I’ve been thinking about it and I just don’t feel good or comfortable about this job anymore because of what happened. I’m concerned if I commit to it and get started it might turn into another headache.

But the time has come I have to make a decision and get in touch with them one way or the other before too much more time goes by.

 

[VenasNursery]

Alternative view: I see a company (any, not just tree) rolling with brand new everything I think one of 2 things:
1) they are in debt up to their eyes and 2 slow months away from being out
2) they are charging too much to pay for shiny paint when another company can do the same thing for less money.

Equipment should be good and functional, not always breaking down...but there is a long way between brand new and not functioning.

First thing I think is that they are good business people
Must do good work or they wouldn’t be around with nice equipment
And when I see equipment older than their employees
I think alcoholics drug addiction
boats and four wheelers are more important

The best is when their chip and wood trucks are 20-25 years old and they have a brand new super duty with a receiver with paint stool on the inside

Sounds like a big gulp of hater-ade to me

nothing wrong with older equipment if kept up and clean
But I choose to constantly invest into my company with my earnings
Just my two cents