Zigzag failure

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Petzl will never recommend using a quickdraw as backup, 1, because that would be like saying this product is unsafe but just back it up, we arent going to fix it... and 2, because it would negate the swivel, and 3 because it could cause all sorts of crossloading issues.

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I think Petzl will issue a recall and not recommend using a QuickDraw, but am not so sure that the quickdraw could cause crossloading issues, (unless there is a lot of torque rotating that swivel?)
Petzl appears to have produced an inferior and unsafe product, which surprises the heck outta me for that company. A Kong-like lapse in good judgement for Petzl's engineering dept?

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Yes, I agree, most of the new petzl stuff is too skinny, the older stuff is bomb proof.
 
I've read accounts of sailers (Vendee Globe race) shortening the handles on their toothbrushes in order to shave off a couple of grams of weight, but that mindset may not be such a hot idea when translated to life support equipment used in the vertical environment.
 
Climbed all day on mine today. Leaned back into it at 60 feet and felt nary a twinge of fear...and I have fallen 45 feet before and know the pain and broken bones that go with it. If mine fails, and I see that as highly unlikely, I will hit the ground with a smile on my face as I love it that much.
 
I agree 100% that Petzl wont, or more cannot now come out and say we think the ZZ should be backed up, it just cannot happen, but perhaps it should have ? Hindsight and all that.
I was just thinking out loud kind of thing.... same as for the 'quiklink/quikdraw' thing only menion it because it was what was in the picture, and yes I do know that it is quikdraw, my bad.
I dont really care about terminology like you do Nick, in fact I doubt I care about much the same way you in regards to climbing, and thats OK.
When I say top roped in a tree I think the majority of people who are not morons, know what I mean, the others... ???
Im not one to get into forum tuff guy matches, I rarely re read posts, but this ZZ thing interested me more than most.
When I say that I feel people should consider more redunancy, I think I also understand that there is supposed to be, or more correctley, there must be a level of trust and confidence in our gear, I meant to only suggest that it is always good to try to think in terms of redunancy, our booms have reduntant safeguards and I wouldnt go up in one without em.
Sometimes people can seem to get a little Blase' about climbing, so if nothing less, as unfortunate as it is for someone to be injured, if an incident like this can cause a lot of climbers, and companies even to reasses procedures and systems, that has gotta be a good thing.
And again my apologies for loose terminology, just shooting from the hip I guess.
Stay safe all.
 
Technical reminders
- ZIGZAG design:
- The ZIGZAG is CE-certified PPE and designed to resist static loads greater than 15 kN.
- The side plates are constructed with the same materials and adhere to the same side plate requirements as similar
products (ID, GRIGRI, RIG).
- Use of connectors:
A carabiner should always be loaded on its major axis. If it is cross-loaded, side-loaded or loaded off axis, it can:
- break under low loads (ex: gate breakage at 1 to 2 kN)
- or if cantilevered, it can transmit very high loads (4 to 5 times the applied load)
- Note:
Sudden stopping during a descent could transmit dynamic loads up to 3 to 4 kN. The combination of both incorrectly
loaded carabiners and sudden stops could generate dynamic forces greater than 15 kN and exceed the minimum
breaking strength of the attachment points of the connected device.


This is a copy paste from the petzl link Turtle shared. I do understand that there is a limit to gear strength. What I would like to know is that if our ANSI standards are calling for 22kn what place dose the zig-zag have in tree work? It's blatantly underrated for use in the US. If gear such as this is being sold it should be noted by the distributor that "this item is NOT ANSI rated."

It seems that tree tools has done their own breaking of the zig zag. https://www.facebook.com/Treetools.NZ

I'd like the piece of mind if I'm in a uncontrolled decent that when my gear grabs it wont break.
 
The logical thing for Petzl to do is replace the aluminum side plates and lower swivel with steel components with a 25 Kn rating, IMO. The difference in weight is worth the resulting peace of mind.

jomoco
 
Good idea. Black matte for night climbs or nickel would look nice. What the heck I figure Petzl people are reading this maybe they'll make a crome one.

And good point about the 22kn. In drt is the load split above the swivel between two lines allowing the 15kn to be adequate?
 
On the tree tools facebook page, they state they broke one at 15.6kn in Ddrt configure. They had to put a stopper knot in the tail because of the creep. The swivel broke out of the housing due to a rivet failure.

So with that I'd say no the load sharing isn't the issue. If the connection points are only rated for 15kn then it's a no go for work in the US. At least that's my understanding.
 
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On the tree tools facebook page, they state they broke one at 15.6kn in Ddrt configure. They had to put a stopper knot in the tail because of the creep. The swivel broke out of the housing due to a rivet failure.

So with that I'd say no the load sharing isn't the issue. If the connection points are only rated for 15kn then it's a no go for work in the US. At least that's my understanding.

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That is where I would expect the first failure.

It is a no go for employees...not employers...relative to ANSI but then again...these are not laws. But of course you wouldn't want to go to court trying to get away with ignoring them.
 
Add a little levering mechanical advantage and multiply more.

It should be noted the picture of the blowed up Zig Zag may not be the actual one from the training centre in Germany.
 
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40x200+200=8,200 impact load on the anchor point

At around 2,700 this bag of saltwater balloons and calcium we call a body starts to explode.

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need to lighten up on the chili con carne buddy
 
WOW Petzl just issued a stop use notice for the Zig Zag!!

In their own testing it can break BELOW 4kn !!!!!!
 
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