You break/cut you buy?

After a string of preventable stupid mistakes, a former employer did what jim454 mentioned. At the beginning of the year, he put X thousand dollars in the Employee Bonus Account. Every loss/damage due to stupidity was paid for out of that account. At the end of the year, the employees split whatever was left. Not only motivated us to be mindful of our own stupid mistakes but also made us ride roughshod on others when their stupidity cut into our bonus pay. The owner held final authority over whether a loss was deemed 'Stupid' (paid by Bonus) or 'Cost of business' (paid by owner), but he was pretty fair about it.
 
I'm not even gonna start with the boss's "tax". I will say I'll quit before I pay it if it was due to crappy company equipment and lack of care for gear. Exactly why I bring all my own stuff. Now I have had 3 ropes cut in the last year. 2 climbing lines and 1 rigging line. I declined when the boss said he would take it out of their pay. I did however ask for a reduced cash gift to help me replace the 2nd and 3rd rope. Now I blow up if anybody cuts around my ropes. The guy who cut #1 was another climber. Rope 2 was a groundie and former foreman. 3rd nobody would fess up to it. Rope number 2 I got about $40 from the guy and he conveniently never had money so I said screw it. Accidents do happen but when someone is careless and too lazy to take a minute to move MY rope out of the path of the saw I have no sympathy for them. It shouldn't cost me 3/4 of a day's pay to come to work. Somebody needs to take responsibility for it. I need my pay just like the lowest paid guy does.
 
Steve I may have misinterpreted that post from Jeff and not realised it applied to the climber as well as the ground staff my apologies I too have suffered all three examples that you have laid out and now react in the same manner when people are anywhere near my ropes with a running chainsaw.
 
A lot of different perspectives in this thread ,each to thier own, based on the circumstance of the problem and how thier business is modeled to deal with the issue at hand. In differences in one time events and reoccurring issues with poor employees. Everyone can have a bad day once in a while. An employer whom has the eye for a top performer will suffer the least all around through time and money loss. The ability of the employer to pick the good ones ...and keep...will result from all around care of thier employee , not just treating them like a tool and more like an asset that they are , regardless of thier pay, for if they show up for work and have a good attitude ..do the right thing..what they make monetarily must be suiting them. Its surly not all about the money for everyone. Not to say things can't change ,but you have to cross that bridge when you come to it.
 
Stihlmadd, the Bonus Fund was split equally by all field employees (groundies, climbers, spray techs, mechanics, etc) and didn't apply to the office staff. (Their stupid mistakes didn't typically cost the company much money) However, you could modify the bonus plan to whatever fits your own situation. For example: If you're the owner/climber, make it only for the groundies. If you have a larger company with well defined job titles, you could define each job title as qualifying for a different percentage of the bonus pie. Etc, etc...
 
Well at the time being I am with the Steve Connally way of things I bring all the rigging saws etc so any carelessness directly affects my take home pay just as if I make a mistake resulting in damage I am the one who wears the costs for repair so there is not a whole lot of fairness in the equation.
In the future when I run my own business and employ staff then I would adopt a model as you have expressed, the motivation of teamwork within the frame work as a positive influence appeals more than shouting at people after the fact.
 
Stihlmadd, I notice your quote from Gunny Hartmann. Don't know if you did any time in the military or paid close attention in that movie, but there is great motivation to be had in your peers, not just your leaders. When Pvt. Pyle was caught with the jelly doughnut, his buds paid the price in pushups (one of my favorite quotes: "They're paying for it; you eat it!") Thus, they were all motivated to see Pvt. Pyle succeed. (Also motivated to throw him a Towel Party to express their displeasure, but it does work both ways) The group's time or score was always that of the slowest/lowest member, thus we'd all work AS A TEAM to help them along. Really drives home the 'No man left behind' mentality.
 
really must agree with you there about good team work ( towel party :LOL: ) we are engaged in a trade were we can equally kill each other through mistakes - the great leveller across any social boundary and it impels us to create a environment in which we all feel safe around each other when working - we describe it as we all go home no matter what has occurred on any given day.
we lead by example and from the front as the climber but are codependent with all the other staff to get that job done.
I once took on a big dead tree by myself, the amount of time I lost coming down just to refuel sharpen etc could have easily paid the wage for some one else to be there as well - this is how we learn.:tarjetaroja:
 
Steve Connally said:
I'm not even gonna start with the boss's "tax". I will say I'll quit before I pay it if it was due to crappy company equipment and lack of care for gear. Exactly why I bring all my own stuff. Now I have had 3 ropes cut in the last year. 2 climbing lines and 1 rigging line. I declined when the boss said he would take it out of their pay. I did however ask for a reduced cash gift to help me replace the 2nd and 3rd rope. Now I blow up if anybody cuts around my ropes. The guy who cut #1 was another climber. Rope 2 was a groundie and former foreman. 3rd nobody would fess up to it. Rope number 2 I got about $40 from the guy and he conveniently never had money so I said screw it. Accidents do happen but when someone is careless and too lazy to take a minute to move MY rope out of the path of the saw I have no sympathy for them. It shouldn't cost me 3/4 of a day's pay to come to work. Somebody needs to take responsibility for it. I need my pay just like the lowest paid guy does.
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If a climber brought their own gear to a job for me and one of my guys cut it... That's on me with out even thinking.
 
Well. That's good of you but not everybody looks at the almighty dollar that way. I think it all comes down to personality and ethics and value of your employees. When they are treated like they don't matter then why care. I see both sides here. I do maintain there needs to be some personal responsibility for carelessness.
 
Just institute and verbally reinforce the LAW that if a groundy cuts your line/s they immediately pay half of the value of it...and just watch from above how they respect your lines and you will be impressed. I have never had another line cut since my bro in law cut one and I began this. I could care less if it is legal or not and "some laws are meant to be broken" comes to mind. What is the worst that will happen to you?...And maybe between 2 guys the gm offered to pay for the line then made this up :inocente:

Now were I an employee like I was many moons ago, any gm would have been pre conditioned to respect my lines and back then it was nothing unusual for one guy to cold cock another and then bygones be bygones...life goes on ...penalty dispensed.

My biz has always been 99% two man op so it can be more easily controlled as is true for the job in general and that is why I like it that way. If a guy quit on me I have been known to throw a bicycle on say a bucket truck and ride it back from a job and get another truck and chipper etc until a new body is installed below.

NO way is a job going to be run where the condition exists that a ground laborer could cut my line and I bale out from 80 feet only to find myself on the ground, a victim of a cut line...or a smashed roof from the same scenario...no way.
 
limbcontrol said:
We dont have an employee $ penalty in equipment damage. If someone damages the equipment a stern discussion is usually all that is needed for explanation to evaluate and correct any negligence. If a pattern occurs of stupidity their job position gets evaluated. If reoccurring stupid mistakes are observed, those mistakes could get someone hurt and their part of a crew member may be elsewhere.

if a saw or such gets left on a job. It is absolutely the crew's responsibility to do a tool count at the end of each job. Our policy is if "you lose it the whole crew buys it" say for example a $800 saw gets left in Mrs Jones ivy bed cause they didn't account for it at the end of the job. Their responsibility to go find it or they buy it. $800 divided by 4 employees $50 per week till the replacement cost is covered. Unfortunately it is the only method we have found that works for having employees keep track of the equipment like it's their own.
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I never use to even think about charging employees for lost or broken equipment. It happened so infrequently. There was a patch of time last fall when every single day they either broke, lost, or damaged the property in some small way of the homeowner or the company. For acts of gross negligence, I think the policy described by limbcontrol here is a sensible one. And, I can report, it works.
 
"Praise is public and punishment is private" was the management rule I was always taught. I believe it works for many things: most guys know when they've made a boneheaded move and don't need to be called out in front of their coworkers. After reading this thread I do perhaps see the value in "making the whole crew 'pay' (not monetarily) for one member's stupid mistake. Tree work works well when it's a true team effort and we all need to be accountable for the actions of each individual. On a side note... bonus pay??? Never heard of it:envidioso!
 
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The spread/pay for the blame is all well and good but climbing lines, including basal srt anchors...are hallowed grounds and maybe a little more than a monetarily shared payment between say 3 guys of what $30. each needs to be magnified...imo. Anger gets attention...postponed it is watered down.

Hey, last year in my old biz property I had to block my dump trailer with a truck to protect it, having already had one stolen and a rash of dump trailers stolen in this area. Guy forget one day...$5000. trailer stolen. Another day guy rides home in a truck that begins to overheat...nothing done...blew a headgasket....cost $1200. Lucky no cracked head. I could go on but I won't because I have a next to perfect gm for the last half year...no exaggeration.
 
John Uselding said:
"Praise us public and punishment is private" was the management ruse I was always taught. I believe it works for many things: most guys know when they've made a boneheaded move and don't need to be called our in front of their coworkers. After reading this thread I do perhaps see the value in "making the whole crew 'pay' (not monetarily) for one member's stupid mistake. Tree work works well when it's a true team effort and we all need to accountable for the actions of each individual. On a side note... bonus pay??? Never heard of it:envidioso!
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yeh the extra motivation to see the year out with a nice cash bonus can work wonders on the end of year team attitude
why should just the climber make bonus money for increased production, team spirit earns the cash.
 
ward said:
I never use to even think about charging employees for lost or broken equipment. It happened so infrequently. There was a patch of time last fall when every single day they either broke, lost, or damaged the property in some small way of the homeowner or the company. For acts of gross negligence, I think the policy described by limbcontrol here is a sensible one. And, I can report, it works.
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Dr. Ward, I didn't mean to drop your 201! I am still riddled with guilt
 
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