Yaw, Pitch & Roll

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What is this load going to do?

What is this load missing?

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Alright Jamin... what are you getting at here, looks like the load isnt going to do anything unless there is some wind since its already freely suspended. Looks like that would have been a "cute" cut to make if that was originally a vertical truck section...
Whats it missing?
 
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IMO a tree crane work is a monkeys job and honestly you can take any second rate climber and he will be a superstar with a crane and that evident alot in tree work , but its my opinion with that being said once its up it has to be hung or is that a joke as well ? Lets take a 8k top 140 ft woopty doo ... I have done both and not many have worked both ends of crane work and really its cake work really it is , I will take any tree with a crane any day of the week compared to what I did before but that is just me ..

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Monkeys are very smart animals. We have learned alot from them. You can only do tree work with a second rate climber if you have a good op. Sometimes once the pick is hanging thats when the challenging part starts. Putting it down between wire gardens traffic etc.and getting it close to the equipment removing it. Picking the piece is often the easiest part.yet sometimes the hardest part.
In construction there is a clear set of guidlines ie osha as to how work is to be performed or not. We are still trying to set those...definately not clear yet. There are safety devices on crane which if functioning properly and not overidden prevent accidents provided the ground is stable...There is no safety device yet that will prevent you from taking too big a piece..


Now that was off topic too and I appologize but on topic if you compared the 2 construction doesnt have the movement trees do. The site is usually much friendlier to crane set up and more time is alotted for the planning of lifts.
 
exactly what allmark said. the op has to deal with whatever happens after the cut is made. things work out nicely when both the climber and the op know what they are doing. the op needs to look out for the climbers safety and the climber needs to know what the particular crane can handle and not shock load the crane. cranes are rated at lifting freely suspended loads, with no side loading, and no shock loads. (brings to mind videos of tests conducted with dynomometers of lifting forces imparted to ropes when shock loads are applied). tree work violates all the design parameters that cranes are designed with, small wonder that ansi and osha are treading lightly regarding tree related work rules. i am amazed that crane manufacturers haven't come out with a reduced chart for crane work similar to rating reductions required for duty-cycle and barge related work.
 
I would imagine the load would "roll" on the heavy side. (At least that's what I created in my mind)
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But, what if a climber didn't have that 3rd leg/sling on the load and the limb was close to a structure? And what if the climber didn't think it was necessary to stabalize that with a 3rd leg?

Since, I'm the owner of my company, if I saw one of my guys rigging incorrectly, (in this situation) I'd yell, "The load is going to roll. Put another choker on that!" Well, if he understood the word "roll", he'd understand that I ment the rolling axis needs to be stabalized. After all, the load doesn't appear to have any movement on it's "pitch" axis. And do to possible wind, it may "yaw" a little.

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what if you just removed the protruding limb first? simple activity, crane locates climber out on limb with long nylon, climber hooks up limb, crane swings climber to cut position, climber ties off, crane tensions line, cut is made problem over. gtound man doesn't have to fight with unwieldy piece, op is happy, game over.
 
Thats a bit silly we would work cranes to there limit running a 450ft boom as far as it can reach without pulling the line through the drum , I have seen lattice and hydros stood up on end trying to get that last 6inches , as a matter of fact when we set a roof section on the Eagles stadium which is 250+ in some areas we would push the load by hand and on the ground the cats would raise the exact amount we would push and we were on a 2250 which is a 400 ton crane we could of flipped if we pushed it too hard .. but as far a construction goes there wouldn't even be a universal set of hand signals with out the cons. side of crane work making them up .... Really
 
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i am amazed that crane manufacturers haven't come out with a reduced chart for crane work similar to rating reductions required for duty-cycle and barge related work.

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Most manufacturers don't reduce their ratings, either the op has to know where he has to run or an engineer has to defate the chart.

A tree crane op should reduce his own chart or likewise get an engineer to derate it, we try to run around 50 % unless we're picking a log up off the ground.

A manufacturer derating a crane is like ford building a 500hp mustang and advertising it as a 100hp.
 
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Thats a bit silly we would work cranes to there limit running a 450ft boom as far as it can reach without pulling the line through the drum , I have seen lattice and hydros stood up on end trying to get that last 6inches , as a matter of fact when we set a roof section on the Eagles stadium which is 250+ in some areas we would push the load by hand and on the ground the cats would raise the exact amount we would push and we were on a 2250 which is a 400 ton crane we could of flipped if we pushed it too hard ..

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Sounds like you WERE pushing it too hard. Sounds like a rogue cowboy putting other's lives and property at jeopardy. Likely someone a little brighter than you making that decision tho.
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but as far a construction goes there wouldn't even be a universal set of hand signals with out the cons. side of crane work making them up .... Really

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Yeah and if that guy didn't invent the wheel....we all would be driving cars with square tires lol.

The reality is you have likely only done less than a handful of tree crane jobs from my familiarity with you and you are talkin outta ya xxx.

Why aren't you still doing const. work if it is so exiting? What kind of crane does your tree company own?
 
Listen Mr. pin oak you know me and I know you I have seen your slow motion tree crane in use and frankly with you as an operator I would rather cut the entire tree into pizza pies before I would let you pull the levers for me and as far as a crane is concerned don't go beating your liver spotted chest with that ol ' sign crane to me ... I am not gonna indulge your bitter attitude .... AND AS FAR AS CONS. work being so exiting (exciting) because you can't spellcheck your posts I can get a crane that can pick your limp #### of a boom and throw it in a dumpster set up ....Don't quit another forum with missed ID's and a lack of sense of humor or humility ...
 
Re: Yaw, Pitch & Roll

why is a person of your caliber, with such vast experience and limitless knowledge wasting your time on a forum like this. it's perfectly clear that none of us could possibly appreciate your talents.
 
Yes, you are correct, I did leave AS after about 4 years and over 6,000 posts about a week ago for good. The reason for that was not a lack of sense of humor, etc. but rather because of the massive degradation of the forum by people like you (mainly you) with low intelligence and operating out of the stone ages. Interrupting threads such as this where you enter calling posters "a bunch of children" because they have not sat their excessively overweight (250 lb I think) posterior in the seat of a construction crane briefly, like supposedly you have.

Do you own a crane?...No...Do you have more than a handful of tree crane jobs to your experience? ...no.

Yet you will brazenly interrupt this or any thread with any kind of intellectual topic like for instance a thread on TRACE or the ISA Certification of Tree Risk Assessors, which incidentally I recently attained that Certification, with jealous non sensible rhetoric just because your ability to type allows you to.

As for my crane, Tom is familiar with that particular crane in his shop and I am here to say I could have bought a number of other units and settled for this one as it is in immaculate condition and a perfect driveway unit not crushing driveways and plenty of reach, rear mount and 25 ton cap. We have made tons of money with it already and use it on an almost every other day basis picking apart 100' trees effortlessly despite your (again) jealous disdain for it.
 
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Thats a bit silly we would work cranes to there limit running a 450ft boom as far as it can reach without pulling the line through the drum , I have seen lattice and hydros stood up on end trying to get that last 6inches , as a matter of fact when we set a roof section on the Eagles stadium which is 250+ in some areas we would push the load by hand and on the ground the cats would raise the exact amount we would push and we were on a 2250 which is a 400 ton crane we could of flipped if we pushed it too hard .. but as far a construction goes there wouldn't even be a universal set of hand signals with out the cons. side of crane work making them up .... Really

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I worked with someone who would have the crane in the air frequently. At the time my ignorance led me to believe we were the best..I have operated a crane with 1 side right up in the air. Now I know that was simply wreckless and not something to brag about. If you could destabilize the crane by pushing the load it was an extremely unsafe condition. Eventually someone will get hurt. Big blue went down when the operator refused to do the pick and someone else jumped in and said they could do it....what a shame.
 
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...Big blue went down when the operator refused to do the pick and someone else jumped in and said they could do it....what a shame.

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Interesting. I didn't know the details behind that.
 
Actually the exact reason Big Blue fell was because the tin knockers closed the vents on the HVAC and the load caught wind like a sail , causing a shear pin the right Cat to fail , it was too windy too work and BIG BLUE was costing alot of money to rent so he was gonna work no matter the Operator , and I know this because my father in law was there one week prior and should of been there when it fell . In crane safety we studied alot of different accidents and common mistakes made with lifts, faulty rigging and poor dunnage or cribbing practices ...The oilers that worked that crane were there and the damaged shear pin may have been something that would of doomed that crane at any time ... I feel awful for all involved but more so for the men who died when the load line was cut on the helper crane dropping them 150+ and the men who never saw the load coming and were crushed , What an awful memory ...
 
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Actually the exact reason Big Blue fell was because the tin knockers closed the vents on the HVAC and the load caught wind like a sail , causing a shear pin the right Cat to fail , it was too windy too work and BIG BLUE was costing alot of money to rent so he was gonna work no matter the Operator , and I know this because my father in law was there one week prior and should of been there when it fell . In crane safety we studied alot of different accidents and common mistakes made with lifts, faulty rigging and poor dunnage or cribbing practices ...The oilers that worked that crane were there and the damaged shear pin may have been something that would of doomed that crane at any time ... I feel awful for all involved but more so for the men who died when the load line was cut on the helper crane dropping them 150+ and the men who never saw the load coming and were crushed , What an awful memory ...

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The real reason is it was too windy period. Not looking to argue this incident. I am very familiar with the details. Just trying to point out what bypassing safety does. With all the training you have done would you still put a crane up on its end to reach?


Sorry for the derail guys. We should take this to another thread
 
I see your point its not missed with me , I apologize for the derail ... Safety is key all the time and just because things have been in the moment surely doesn't make it safe or acceptable ...
 
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