Whole Tree Chipper Two Man Minimum Rule Adoption?

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Re: Whole Tree Chipper Two Man Minimum Rule Adopti

infra-red. is there any liberal logic out there that I am missing? what would make thermal imaging unfeasible in this application?
 
Re: Whole Tree Chipper Two Man Minimum Rule Adopti

[ QUOTE ]
Over and over I've told you that I know about the dragon tail.

What did YOU miss in your risk assessment to put THREE operators in front of the dragon?!?!?!

It sounds like YOU need the rule in place, not the rest of us.

You have an opportunity to answer questions directly without changing words. Or ignoring the questions outright. One chane here. Or the thread gets locked. If you can't carry on a reasonable discussion and only choose to attack everyone then your thread will continue to be locked.

[/ QUOTE ]

You still don't understand that it's a practical necessity to get behind the dragon's tail to gain the leverage demanded for one man or even two, in order to successfully get it into the feed wheels' grasp. Some times 15-20 feet behind the feed table itself.

How much BC1800 feeding have you done Tom?

You'd have to be Hercules to feed a long knarly 8 inch limb from the side of the feed table. No normal chipper operator can.

Taking extra time to dice it into teeny tiny manageable pieces defeats the whole purpose of buying a BC1800 whole tree chipper in the first place.

But they're so much more capable of being worked to their production capacity by 3-4 men, rather than one bloke alone. That it's not only more dangerous to the operator, it's less efficient as well

BC 1000's are better suited to safely have one man feed teeny tiny stuff from the side of the feed table where it's recommended a solo operator should to be safer. Safe enough, or some such impracticality when feeding big long branches into an 1800 alone in the real world of production WTC removal operations.

The right equipment with the right number of men to safely operate it at a high rate of production.

I've been slapped about a few times with Godzilla's tail mate. And it hoits!

jomoco
 
Re: Whole Tree Chipper Two Man Minimum Rule Adopti

[ QUOTE ]
Briefly, as I consider the comparison that said requiring a second chipper operator is akin to requiring another climber in the tree, I disagree. The response time necessary to save someone from a chipper is seconds. On the contrary in many aerial rescue situations you have more time.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree that it isn't an exact comparison. I just don't think comparing a blanket 2 chipper opp reg is comparable to requiring having someone capable of rescuing a climber onsite.

A chipper opp has many options available to them to avoid this dragons tail. Only an opp that is putting themselves infront of the feed table as the material hits the feed rollers is at risk of this hazard, at this point they are all ready using the machine in an unsafe manor.

Jomoco, you keep pointing too OSHA, and their wisdom on saving lives. This is the same agency that maintains that is is safer to climb a tree then to "ride the ball" of a crane. They only reluctantly and selectively accept the ANSI standard. OSHA has done great things to advance worker safety but they are not always on top of how things work in the tree industry.

Your "three saves" should never have happened in the first place. people feeding chippers shouldn't be putting themselves in harms way no matter how many people are on the ground, there is always that one in a million chance that the linkage fails on the safety bar when it really counts. Your crews may be too concerned with production and not focused enough on safety, its possible to be a safe and productive at the same time.
 
Re: Whole Tree Chipper Two Man Minimum Rule Adopti

Jomoco, I'm (respectfully) wondering why any chipper operator is put into the position of manhandling a long, heavy, twisty, limb into the infeed rollers in the first place. Wouldn't "common sense" dictate that the limb be reduced to manageable (safer) sizes before being hand fed to the beast?
If an outfit is gonna use a monster chipper to feed monster limbs via the Human Brute instead of a grapple / loader / excavator / whatever, then maybe using one's brain instead of brute strength might make a whole lot more sense.
 
Re: Whole Tree Chipper Two Man Minimum Rule Adopti

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Over and over I've told you that I know about the dragon tail.

What did YOU miss in your risk assessment to put THREE operators in front of the dragon?!?!?!

It sounds like YOU need the rule in place, not the rest of us.

You have an opportunity to answer questions directly without changing words. Or ignoring the questions outright. One chane here. Or the thread gets locked. If you can't carry on a reasonable discussion and only choose to attack everyone then your thread will continue to be locked.

[/ QUOTE ]

You still don't understand that it's a practical necessity to get behind the dragon's tail to gain the leverage demanded for one man or even two, in order to successfully get it into the feed wheels' grasp. Some times 15-20 feet behind the feed table itself.

How much BC1800 feeding have you done Tom?

You'd have to be Hercules to feed a long knarly 8 inch limb from the side of the feed table. No normal chipper operator can.

Taking extra time to dice it into teeny tiny manageable pieces defeats the whole purpose of buying a BC1800 whole tree chipper in the first place.

But they're so much more capable of being worked to their production capacity by 3-4 men, rather than one bloke alone. That it's not only more dangerous to the operator, it's less efficient as well

BC 1000's are better suited to safely have one man feed teeny tiny stuff from the side of the feed table where it's recommended a solo operator should to be safer. Safe enough, or some such impracticality when feeding big long branches into an 1800 alone in the real world of production WTC removal operations.

The right equipment with the right number of men to safely operate it at a high rate of production.

I've been slapped about a few times with Godzilla's tail mate. And it hoits!

jomoco

[/ QUOTE ]

so what to have to say about one man feeding a chipper with a winch? in a manner that he never steps in front of the feed tray with the infeed wheels spinning?
Or a crew chipping small material, where one man can easily feed the machine from the side of the chipper?
Or a two man crew where the climber or bucket opp lowers limbs rigged to the tree and the ground man feeds them easily into the chipper from the side of the machine?

Again you are blaming the machine on a particular unsafe work practice. Better pre job safety briefings and site specific policies, not blanket rules
 
Re: Whole Tree Chipper Two Man Minimum Rule Adopti

I get the distinct feeling you guys don't understand the mechanics of feeding long bent branches that weigh a lot actually into the feed wheels?

It can't be done by one man muscling it in from the side of the feed table. Impossible. He must back up to gain the leverage required to get it into the feed wheels, see?

I'm talkin bout feeding the 1800 of course

jomoco
 
Re: Whole Tree Chipper Two Man Minimum Rule Adopti

No we all understand what your talking about.

Your missing the point. The man running the chipper is making the choice to fight with the large branch to feed it whole rather then make a few cuts or get help from another crew member, or a loader, or winch. Its that choice that is putting them at risk. In many companies a BC1800 is not that big of a chipper, often used on pruning jobs, not just the application you use it in
 
Re: Whole Tree Chipper Two Man Minimum Rule Adopti

[ QUOTE ]
I get the distinct feeling you guys don't understand the mechanics of feeding long bent branches that weigh a lot actually into the feed wheels?

It can't be done by one man muscling it in from the side of the feed table. Impossible. He must back up to gain the leverage required to get it into the feed wheels, see?

I'm talkin bout feeding the 1800 of course

jomoco

[/ QUOTE ]

Now YOU'RE the one cutting corners to make monetary efficiency at the employee's risk. If it means cutting into small pieces to save a life do it! Don't claim that its the manufacturer or regulations that will save lives. You already ignored your own risk assessment and put them in harms way.

The justification that you're using is the same as any corner cutting dodge that comes down the pike.
 
Re: Whole Tree Chipper Two Man Minimum Rule Adopti

How much time (and $$$) does it take to cut that long branch in half, Jomoco?
 
Re: Whole Tree Chipper Two Man Minimum Rule Adopti

Well, we lost a ground worker today.

Goddamn our three person crew! (Now two)

I was keeping an eye on the climber and an eye on the guy chipping, and then the unthinkable happened. It was like something out of Sophie's Choice.

The climber appeared thirsty at exactly the same time the groundman got tangled in a bunch of ivy-wrapped branches.

Both his hands were bound pretty tightly, and he was slowly being dragged toward his doom. But then, there was that climber up there, wiping his brow and still looking parched.

So I ran for the cooler and grabbed a jug of cold water and got it tied on the line as fast as I could.

The groundman escaped the tangled branches on his own, somehow, but it frightened him badly and he resigned moments later.

So, we lost a ground worker today.
 
Re: Whole Tree Chipper Two Man Minimum Rule Adopti

[ QUOTE ]
How much time (and $$$) does it take to cut that long branch in half, Jomoco?

[/ QUOTE ]

When your policy is a minimum of two men feeding that 1800?

It's faster and more efficient for them to feed the whole branch as a team since it takes them both to feed it into the feed wheels. Then both of them holding the feed bar in the feed mode position so the branch's laterals don't disengage the feed bar as it gets sucked in like santa's Xmas tree down the chimney see?

That's what WTC's like the 1800 are designed to do without fiddling around pruning each big branch with a chainsaw first. It's called a high production removal crew earning their money so the boss will be happy and give them a bonus for working hard and profitably each week.

The profit margins on a productive removal crew are far higher than a productive pruning crew. That's true industry wide. Particularly using an in house company owned crane.

You wanna trim the snot outta every big branch that goes through your chippers? Then feed them through a BC1000 if you want a solo operator to do it with a modicum of safety from the feed table's side?

BC1000 makes finer more compactable chips anyway.

jomoco
 
Re: Whole Tree Chipper Two Man Minimum Rule Adopti

My my newest ground guy can safely winch any size branch into our 1800 then safely hold feed bar bypass button by himself. More productively and safer then 2 guys straining their backs trying to feed that same branch.
 
Re: Whole Tree Chipper Two Man Minimum Rule Adopti

You do realize of course that there are many thousands of 1800's out in the field each day that don't have winches, right Willy?

Hope your newest man's career lasts a good long time mate.

jomoco
 
Re: Whole Tree Chipper Two Man Minimum Rule Adopti

I do. So should I be held to operating my chipper with winch with2 people even though I can safely do it with one? I am all about safety and strongly believe My operation is very safe. Most of the time My crew is removing street trees with a bucket truck a man on ropes and a man feeding the chipper. I would hate to add another man to the chipper because I don't believe it would make us any more productive or safer.
 
Re: Whole Tree Chipper Two Man Minimum Rule Adopti

Yes you should voluntarily adopt a two man minimum rule, and pay the price of the second operator. Then instruct them on how to double team an 1800 and keep a close eye on each other as their methods as a team increase production rates closer to the 1800's true capabilities. All while profits and paychecks increase as well.

jomoco
 
Re: Whole Tree Chipper Two Man Minimum Rule Adopti

I have the man power to feed it with 6 guys if the situation warrants it but it usually doesn't increase production. 2 guys on the ground is plenty. No need for a baby sitter on our crew.
 
Re: Whole Tree Chipper Two Man Minimum Rule Adopti

[ QUOTE ]
?

It can't be done by one man muscling it in from the side of the feed table. Impossible. He must back up to gain the leverage required to get it into the feed wheels, see?

I'm talkin bout feeding the 1800 of course

jomoco

[/ QUOTE ]

But if you are using a crane or other ground equipment to load it you shouldn't be required to have a second person next to the chipper to watch in case.

If one man or two are muscling big pieces into a chipper they will regret it years later from the damage to their backs and shoulders.
 
Re: Whole Tree Chipper Two Man Minimum Rule Adopti

Because I'm a sub contracting climber who's had lots of exposure to different crews chippers and cranes CT.

But the three tree company owners I subbed for over 25 years plus now are all three millionaires.

That 300 HP 2400 Hurricane's my favorite WTC of all time!

Love the way you can hydraulically open its feed wheel roller jaw, and stuff a 20 inch diameter 90 foot euc into it with a crane, and disconnect, then let the auto feed eat the whole dang thang in bout two minutes!

A true beast.

jomoco
 
Re: Whole Tree Chipper Two Man Minimum Rule Adopti

[ QUOTE ]
Because I'm a sub contracting climber who's had lots of exposure to different crews chippers and cranes CT.

But the three tree company owners I subbed for over 25 years plus now are all three millionaires.

That 300 HP 2400 Hurricane's my favorite WTC of all time!

Love the way you can hydraulically open its feed wheel roller jaw, and stuff a 20 inch diameter 90 foot euc into it with a crane, and disconnect, then let the auto feed eat the whole dang thang in bout two minutes!

A true beast.

jomoco

[/ QUOTE ]

You are a master of not responding to anyone's questions, or opinions...

How would your reg handle winch feed chippers
Grapple fed chippers?
Chippers fed with skid steers? Excavators? Log trucks? Cranes?
Many of us don't run our crews in such an archaic manner
 
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