Whole Tree Chipper Two Man Minimum Rule Adoption?

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Re: Whole Tree Chipper Two Man Minimum Rule Adopti

I wont waste my time finding all the posts by Jomoco where he pontificates how the rule makers dont know shat, or where he refuses to follow the rules, or condems other people as stupid for following them... I wont bother finding MORE rhetoric. This is a waste of time. He refuses to answer anyones inquiries or challenges and just continues to blab.

Lucky for us he wont get anywhere.
 
Re: Whole Tree Chipper Two Man Minimum Rule Adopti

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The rule change I'm proposing saved the lives of three chipper operators on my crews.

On the job firsthand experience gets deferred for professorial speculations on why two men working together is not the answer?

He says they go in fast, within two seconds. Yet each of my operators that got dragon tailed off their feet had 5-10 seconds before the second man reacted in time in a real live on the job situation with 1800's.

Go figure!

Yu think maybe Morbark has them in chute last chance at life panic handles for a particular reason?

jomoco

[/ QUOTE ]

You have refused to respond everytime someone has asked "why did you have 3 close calls in the first place? "

[/ QUOTE ]

The same reason Morbark designed and produced those in chute panic handles for.

It takes multiple men to feed large heavy twisted branches and trees into an 18 inch WTC's feed wheels and get the heck out of the danger area once the feed wheels have a grip on it see?

I know you guys don't believe that a bent branch butt orienting itself against a huge cutting mandrel spinning at 700 rpm can flip that entire branch over quite violently in less than a second? But it happens nonetheless. And unless you're on your toes alert and ready to duck dodge and hide? That branch can catch you before you get out of its reach on either side.

Chipper operators get tired and exhausted just like climbers do guys.

And though I'm sure none of you have ever tripped, stumbled or had any mishaps due to your superior training methods and rigorous adherence to safe operating procedures?

In the real world lots of experienced veterans, including myself trip stumble and fall at times in typical hilarious three stooges fashion just like normal frail human beings have throughout history.

jomoco
 
Re: Whole Tree Chipper Two Man Minimum Rule Adopti

The last company I worked for totally did away with chippers on the residential crews. The company I'm with now has a chipper, but its more of a space taker at the shop. Grapple trucks!! I personally believe chippers are a thing of the past.
 
Re: Whole Tree Chipper Two Man Minimum Rule Adopti

Jomoco,

You dont want to follow the rules that your peers have set but you want to make a rule for your peers to follow? Is that it?

Or will you continue to ignore straightforward challenges to your line of hypocrisy?
 
Re: Whole Tree Chipper Two Man Minimum Rule Adopti

It's actually nothing new to load brush and wood with clam grapples onto 45 foot end dumps Jeremy.

First big LA company I climbed for in 79 did the whole city of Garden Grove that way with nary a chipper in sight.

Good ole Allied Tree Service!

jomoco
 
Re: Whole Tree Chipper Two Man Minimum Rule Adopti

[ QUOTE ]
Jomoco,

You dont want to follow the rules that your peers have set but you want to make a rule for your peers to follow? Is that it?

Or will you continue to ignore straightforward challenges to your line of hypocrisy?

[/ QUOTE ]

Is there some rule prohibiting having 3-4 men hand feed huge branches into a WTC together as a team?

If one of them trips, stumbles or gets upended by the dragon's tail and one of his team members rushes to hit the reverse bar to save his fellow treeworker from being chipped alive?

That's me not following the rules by insisting none of my crew feed that 1800 alone?

Funny I follow OSHA's number one recommendation to prevent chipper related fatalities on the job, and you guys, my peers, make fun of me for it?

Very telling guys. One might even say revealing bout how solo chipper deaths happen so regularly these days?

Ask me your questions guys. I promise to answer in detail.

jomoco
 
Re: Whole Tree Chipper Two Man Minimum Rule Adopti

[ QUOTE ]
It's actually nothing new to load brush and wood with clam grapples onto 45 foot end dumps Jeremy.

First big LA company I climbed for in 79 did the whole city of Garden Grove that way with nary a chipper in sight.

Good ole Allied Tree Service!

jomoco

[/ QUOTE ]

Who said anything about it being new?

I'm just saying. Want to make the job site safer, quieter, more efficient and no need for two man to load. Do away with the chipper altogether.
 
Re: Whole Tree Chipper Two Man Minimum Rule Adopti

Well the point I'm rather subtly emphasizing, is chipper operators processed into the back of chip trucks on the job, is precisely what's new since the early 90's when WTC's first hit the market and scared me so dreadfully.

It's one thing when the victims some mistake prone corner cuttin nameless low life who deserve Darwin's award.

But when it's the hard working father of three leaving a devastated family behind without a bread winner around anymore?

He morphs into a son, a brother, a best friend, the humblest and dutiful coworker in the entire company.

A tree worker who needed help badly one day, but found his destiny alone and trapped in the wheels of death.

That's the problem I'm attempting to address and discuss the most practical means of of lessening the likelihood of occurring are? Possibly even preventing to the best degree possible?

Cut the numbers of deaths in half? In quarter? Ten percent? Anything?

jomoco
 
Re: Whole Tree Chipper Two Man Minimum Rule Adopti

J,

If your workers are getting tired and risk tripping then proper risk management practices would dictate a change. Don't put workers at unreasonable risk.

Read this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hierarchy_of_hazard_control

Look at the components of the system and ask yourself what can change during your workday.

If you're chipping such large pieces that they require 2-3 workers to wrestle them...and THEN STILL KEEPS THEM AT RISK...you must change your process.

Elimination...cut the doglegs/dragon tails off...make the chunks smaller
Substitution...use a grapple loader...no chipping
Engineering controls...retro fit a winch onto the chipper or use another loader to feed the chipper
Administrative controls---train for the hazard...otherwise you have a whole crew that function like Homer Simpson
PPE...goes without saying

There are plenty of other solutions. YOU shouldn't put yoru workers in the known risk environment.
 
Re: Whole Tree Chipper Two Man Minimum Rule Adopti

Having a second chipper operator in close proximity to each other while feeding a WTC saves lives.

It's a wise practice for any tree company owner.

Comes highly recommended by folks like OSHA even.

But I like totally understand how you guys are against it and stuff. Cuz your chipper operators don't trip, stumble makin mistakes n stuff. That your men are immune to critical mistakes at unfortunate times, and are therefor capable of chipping alone safely regardless of how big and powerful the chippers they're operating may be?

So what if Morbark was acutely aware of the very dangers your super chipper operators can overcome and laugh at?

So much so they patented that technology?

Produced it, sold it to the public?

Morbark seems to be the pragmatic realist here. Saying gee whiz, there really are situations where a chipper operator can get into trouble and need a nearby helping hand, even if it's their own?

You go Morbark!

Good job you caring wise super engineers!

Now to figure out how to save an incapacitated operator of your chippers!

You can do it!

jomoco
 
Re: Whole Tree Chipper Two Man Minimum Rule Adopti

Have you read anyones posts? You can read, right?

Blanket rule = bad
Proper safety practices specific to each job = good/lives saved

You should be ashamed of yourself for putting your ground men in such hazardous sitituations
 
Re: Whole Tree Chipper Two Man Minimum Rule Adopti

I have wasted my time and thoughtfully responded to your posts. You have ignored all my points and questions.
You want a rule to make up for your unsafe work practices.
You love osha so much, oshas number one issue with cranes and tree work is the climber ridinding the loadline.
So as not to be a hypocrite I am sure you never do that
 
Re: Whole Tree Chipper Two Man Minimum Rule Adopti

They're all alive and well thank you, except that one who stayed at the company I quit.

The one who died a year later alone.

The fact is that the vast majority of all my groundmen and women throughout my career have great liking and respect for me, and my two man minimum WTC policy.

Particularly when I'm speedlining truck loads of brush n stuff, and landing it in neat piles right behind their chipper for them!

Butts first of course!

Ain't I a meany?

jomoco
 
Re: Whole Tree Chipper Two Man Minimum Rule Adopti

[ QUOTE ]
I have wasted my time and thoughtfully responded to your posts. You have ignored all my points and questions.
You want a rule to make up for your unsafe work practices.
You love osha so much, oshas number one issue with cranes and tree work is the climber ridinding the loadline.
So as not to be a hypocrite I am sure you never do that

[/ QUOTE ]

Legal as all get out here in californy.

Are you as up to date as you claim?

Have more chipper operators been eaten alive than crane ball riders killed?

On the job anywhere?

Over 50 dead since 92 eh?

Can you document them via OSHA's own records the way I can the chipper operator fatalities, excluding the 150 plus non fatal amputations caused by wood chippers?

jomoco
 
Re: Whole Tree Chipper Two Man Minimum Rule Adopti

Jomoco, I have never, and most likely will never operate or own a whole tree chipper. Certainly don't need one, nor want one for the work I do. I do keep a chainsaw by my chipper, which makes life easier. At 52, my back, shoulders, and legs appreciate not lifting or screwing around with dragons unnecessarily.

I would really appreciate if you could show me that cutting large, cumbersome, heavy limbs into smaller, lighter, safer pieces would be time consuming to the point of being uneconomical. The labour costs of having an extra individual, or two, simply in order to "safely" physically manhandle such large tops / limbs intact into the infeed chute of a WTC is illogical IMO. You are advocating for an unsafe work practice under the guise of legislating a supposedly safer workplace through additional manpower. The manner in which you choose to work indicates that safety takes a backseat to production on your jobs.

Just because a WTC can crush and eat dragons doesn't mandate that the WTC should be fed dragons by hand. Unless they are subdued (dissected) first. Which is just common sense.
 
Re: Whole Tree Chipper Two Man Minimum Rule Adopti

[ QUOTE ]
They're all alive and well thank you, except that one who stayed at the company I quit.
The one who died a year later alone.
jomoco

[/ QUOTE ]

Was that the one in Mission Valley off the 8 freeway at the hotel?
Jeff
 
Re: Whole Tree Chipper Two Man Minimum Rule Adopti

I bet more guys get killed driving to and from the job site than get eaten by chippers. New rule, 2 CDL drivers per truck. You know just in case.
 
Re: Whole Tree Chipper Two Man Minimum Rule Adopti

You gotta understand something Pelorus my friend.

I was the foreman for a high production removal crew for over 25 years.

My crew got one of the earliest BC1800's in San Diego county while working a federal naval removal contract averaging over 50 removals per day, for months.

Vermeer's mechanic Hank, had to stay on the job with us the first few days of its operation just to figure out how to keep that 1800's engine from rattling out of it as we stuffed it euc with a crane almost non stop.

And yeah, we worked hard, got paid good, and blew out more trees than ever before provided the engine stayed put.

3-4 men to feed one big tree or branch to it?

You betcha!

Makin good coin left and right!

jomoco
 
Re: Whole Tree Chipper Two Man Minimum Rule Adopti

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
They're all alive and well thank you, except that one who stayed at the company I quit.
The one who died a year later alone.
jomoco

[/ QUOTE ]

Was that the one in Mission Valley off the 8 freeway at the hotel?
Jeff

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes Jeff. And the owner of that company's one of the most reputable and knowledgeable arborists I've ever met in my life, or had the privilege of subbing to as a technical removal expert.

Bear that in mind please.

We all make mistakes.

All of us.

jomoco
 
Re: Whole Tree Chipper Two Man Minimum Rule Adopti

Howza bout some reciprocatin here Marquis?

I asked you a very pertinent question.

Have more chipper operators been eaten alive than crane ball riders killed?

Got a number?

Nationally?

Internationally?

I'll research that, and get back to yu with some hard data okay?

Thanks,

jomoco
 
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