Whole Tree Chipper Two Man Minimum Rule Adoption?

Start a fund drive

  • Sponsor the drive

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Don't sponsor the drive

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Total voters
    0
Status
Not open for further replies.
Re: Whole Tree Chipper Two Man Minimum Rule Adopti

Jomo,

Do you have quilt issues?

Your previous post tries to put the blame on 'law-abiding' operators.

Have you confronted the owners of the companies that you worked for that had the chipper deaths/near misses with as much vehemence as you bring here?

The 'parking lot scoundrels' have operated for centuries. No amount of regulation, or quilt, will change their operations.

Your assessment of human nature sure doesn't fit mine...nor a lot of others here.

The horse is gasping even more...but I had to give it a little kick ;)
 
Re: Whole Tree Chipper Two Man Minimum Rule Adopti

Bye Bye thread.
wavzing.gif


Maybe we should vote...
 
Re: Whole Tree Chipper Two Man Minimum Rule Adopti

No guilt issues on my part Tom. Voluntarily adopting a WTC two man minimum rule on my crews saved three treeworkers lives on the job.
Had I not and those guys had been chipped alive on my job sites?

Yeah, then I would have serious guilt issues bout facilitating deaths on the job by ignoring both OSHA and good common sense concerns for my fellow treeworker's well being on the job.

jomoco
 
Re: Whole Tree Chipper Two Man Minimum Rule Adopti

Jomoco,

I think you're a smart dude and you make really good points.

Having said that, you get maniacal at times. No sweat. All the smart ones do.

But I foresee the straw "breaking the camel's back" and in one way or another, you getting booted from this forum. I personally would be sad to see your vibrant personality go.

Can we let this one die, PLEASE? I promise, with 7 pages and counting, your seed has been planted.
 
Re: Whole Tree Chipper Two Man Minimum Rule Adopti

Why can't the pros against adopting this two man minimum WTC rule articulate any valid rationales for paying the cost for a second man on the job to react and facilitate the rescue of a distressed climber, but refusing to do the same for a chipper operator feeding a WTC alone?

What makes their chipper operators immune from making mistakes on the same job site?

One can make an excellent case that the distressed chipper operator's need for timely assistance exceeds that of a climber by a substantial factor.

If I'm being less than objective and honest about this on the job treeworker safety issue?

Then kindly school me on where my logic and objectivity is lacking in helping to lessen the numbers of solo chipper fatality accidents on the job in the tree industry's future?

The best hope of saving a trapped and incapacitated chipper operator is having a second man in close enough proximity to the chipper to hit that reverse feed bar in time to save his fellow worker's life.

Explain why that's not the case with your infallible chipper operators as well?

jomoco
 
Re: Whole Tree Chipper Two Man Minimum Rule Adopti

Now this is getting funny.
You say the same thing over and over again.
You don't respond to any of the well thought out reasoning against a regulation.
No response when I pointed out how different the climber rule is.
Do you think we should have a second climber in a tree at all times? Or is having a ground man near the tree trained in aerial rescue enough?
You still havent answered why you have had so many close calls?
Why do you think another rule will save lives when the the ones that are getting killed are already not following the current rules.

Do we need a rule against intentionally flipping a crane over because you are grumpy? I bet the defense has a field day with that one.
grin.gif
 
Re: Whole Tree Chipper Two Man Minimum Rule Adopti

Hey, that Alabama certified crane operator hotshot with no tree experience starts insulting an extremely experienced crane assisted removal veteran whose twice his young punk age?

At least I told the truth about that crane flippin that day was entirely my fault for giving him what he was demanding from me, knowing full well it was too much by a hefty factor. Did it out of sheer cussed meanness with malice of intent.

Worst mistake of my career losin it that way, no doubt. Lucky for me the only human damages were my Alabama friend breaking his cool sun glasses in half when he faceplanted into the control cab's front windshield as his world turned upside down.

It was of some credit to the youngster that he told the unvarnished truth about him being totally wrong in demanding the entire tree, whereas i was arguing to give him half of it at that lateral distance from a 30 ton crane's center pin.

Didn't kill anybody or nothin. The crane company admitted the accident was their operator's fault entirely. That had he heeded my orders rather than arguing with me? The accident would not have happened.

But that's no excuse at all. It was my fault as foreman on the job for not sending his punk butt back to his company the minute he ticked me off so royally.

One thing's certain though beyond doubt. I too am prone to mistakes that could be fatal but for luck and circumstance smiling and falling in my favor.

Knock on wood.

Scuttle butt at the crane company was that my friend quit them of his own accord a few weeks later due to his fellow CO's ribbing him bout his newest nick name acronym of CCO. That in his case was short for mister Crane Comin Over.

Life can indeed be cruel at times for those of us susceptible to errors, mistakes, circumstances, at various times over the course of our careers.

Certified crane operators being no exception to this generally accepted and acknowledged rule of life.

jomoco
grin.gif
 
Re: Whole Tree Chipper Two Man Minimum Rule Adopti

Boy oh Boy.......freedom sure is a hard sell to some people.Don't you ever have enough of the regulations?DAMN!!!Just make it against the law to get hurt.That should fix everything instantly.You dumb liberals piss me off to no end.Thats why I never come on the buzz anymore and now will continue to not come on here.
 
Re: Whole Tree Chipper Two Man Minimum Rule Adopti

Tree worker safety regulations are a good thing for common laborers in America including those in the tree industry. They brought you triple locking carabiners, inertia chain brakes devices on all new chainsaws, safety chaps, rated ropes and hardhats.

For the benefit of all workers be they liberals, conservatives or independents?

Aerial rescue is a good thing, so is chipper operator rescue.

jomoco
 
Re: Whole Tree Chipper Two Man Minimum Rule Adopti

Soooo...you got the company to voluntarily have tow chipper operators and you STILL had THREE near death misses?!?!?!

If that's he case then it would seem like the risk assessment done on those days missed something!

I've been around chippers for around 40 years and never had such a close call. Been bumped and thumped but never in a position to get pulled in.

I've chipped solo too but never had an employee do the same.
 
Re: Whole Tree Chipper Two Man Minimum Rule Adopti

Yeah that distinction between owner and employee plays an instructive role about the morality of risking your own life performing a dangerous task well, as opposed to risking an employees life performing the same task.

There's a difference between the two that's better regulated than left up to the bloke collecting the lion's share of the profits to decide.

jomoco
 
Re: Whole Tree Chipper Two Man Minimum Rule Adopti

[ QUOTE ]
Soooo...you got the company to voluntarily have tow chipper operators and you STILL had THREE near death misses?!?!?!

If that's he case then it would seem like the risk assessment done on those days missed something!


[/ QUOTE ]

my point exactly, sounds like your justifing unsafe usage of the chipper by having a second man there.
 
Re: Whole Tree Chipper Two Man Minimum Rule Adopti

The difference between aerial rescue rule, and what your proposing is that it adds another guy.

So in a small company like myself (one employee), I would have only 2 options for must of my jobs. 1. Add another employee, and all the cost of that (wage, workers comp etc) 2. Climber constantly going up and down the tree to help chip...which would add time and physical stress to every job.

I work in a lot of extremely tight areas. Places where I dont have the room to stack 50' of brush. And you need to chip every once and awhile to keep work zone clear.


btw- I am usually the one on the ground chipping alone. I have a younger employee that likes to climb. Plus, this lets me deal with the customers etc.

Plus it wont stop the hacks and homeowner fatalities. All the people that already break all the rules. So why limit the companies that are trying to do the right thing...and train the their employee to respect chippers and their power.
 
Re: Whole Tree Chipper Two Man Minimum Rule Adopti

J

Don't ignore my questions. If you can't take the heat then don't give it out.

How did YOU have 3 near misses following YOUR rules?!
 
Re: Whole Tree Chipper Two Man Minimum Rule Adopti

[ QUOTE ]
Now this is getting funny.
You say the same thing over and over again.
You don't respond to any of the well thought out reasoning against a regulation.
No response when I pointed out how different the climber rule is.
Do you think we should have a second climber in a tree at all times? Or is having a ground man near the tree trained in aerial rescue enough?
You still havent answered why you have had so many close calls?
Why do you think another rule will save lives when the the ones that are getting killed are already not following the current rules.

Do we need a rule against intentionally flipping a crane over because you are grumpy? I bet the defense has a field day with that one.
grin.gif


[/ QUOTE ]

You're assuming the solo chipper operators who've been eaten alive by their chippers were not following current rules. You don't know any such thing for a fact because most solo chipper fatalities happen unwitnessed.

It is however very telling that lots of models of Morbarks and Brush Bandit hydraulically fed chippers come factory equipped with in chute panic cords. A self evident proof that even the chipper manufacturers themselves were worried enough about the operators of their new chipper becoming trapped inside that feed chute, that they provided a last chance cord just before the feed wheels of impending doom for the mistake prone operator, trapped and panicking deep inside that chipper's guts.

Tangible proof Morbark is concerned about the very thing you mistakenly argue is unnecessary if the operator's trained well enough?

Seems the only ones arguing that proper training is sufficient for safe operation of WTC's solo on the job are tree company owners squealing bout profit margins determining employee safety expenses, while they pocket the lion's share of net profits on that job.

Conflict of interests weighted in favor of the dude not riskin his life, but collecting the most profit per job.

jomoco
 
Re: Whole Tree Chipper Two Man Minimum Rule Adopti

[ QUOTE ]
J

Don't ignore my questions. If you can't take the heat then don't give it out.

How did YOU have 3 near misses following YOUR rules?!

[/ QUOTE ]

I told you Tom, the dragon tail affect. Common to all BC1800A WTC's eating long heavy bent limbs violently flipping over as it reorients itself against the cutting mandrel's knives, regardless of the feed wheels' grip on that branch?

Happens fast. Sometimes upending the unwary operator, sometimes trapping them and sucking them in to the beat of the auto feed mechanism.

Maybe you think I haven't done many thousands of removals with 1800 Vermeer WTC's?

But you'd be wrong.

That dragon tail got all three by surprise.

Somehow I think Vermeer knows exactly what the dragon tail affect is, even if you don't buy it mate?

jomoco
 
Re: Whole Tree Chipper Two Man Minimum Rule Adopti

Over and over I've told you that I know about the dragon tail.

What did YOU miss in your risk assessment to put THREE operators in front of the dragon?!?!?!

It sounds like YOU need the rule in place, not the rest of us.

You have an opportunity to answer questions directly without changing words. Or ignoring the questions outright. One chane here. Or the thread gets locked. If you can't carry on a reasonable discussion and only choose to attack everyone then your thread will continue to be locked.
 
Re: Whole Tree Chipper Two Man Minimum Rule Adopti

Briefly, as I consider the comparison that said requiring a second chipper operator is akin to requiring another climber in the tree, I disagree. The response time necessary to save someone from a chipper is seconds. On the contrary in many aerial rescue situations you have more time.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

New threads New posts

Back
Top Bottom