Re: Whole Tree Chipper Two Man Minimum Rule Adopti
Whole Tree Chipper Two Man Minimum Rule Adoption?
- Thread starter jomoco
- Start date
- Status
- Location
- Rochester, NY
Re: Whole Tree Chipper Two Man Minimum Rule Adopti
I think your heart is in the right place, but I for one am sick and tired of regulations. Specially regulations that are not enforceable. All they do is make the guys that follow the rules uncompetitive.
I think your heart is in the right place, but I for one am sick and tired of regulations. Specially regulations that are not enforceable. All they do is make the guys that follow the rules uncompetitive.
treehumper
Carpal tunnel level member
- Location
- Ridgefield, NJ
Re: Whole Tree Chipper Two Man Minimum Rule Adopti
[ QUOTE ]
Is ignoring OSHA a cherished aspect of our industry?
jomoco
[/ QUOTE ]
From what I see every day, I would say yes!
[ QUOTE ]
Is ignoring OSHA a cherished aspect of our industry?
jomoco
[/ QUOTE ]
From what I see every day, I would say yes!
Re: Whole Tree Chipper Two Man Minimum Rule Adopti
Competing with a veteran removal crew with a 70 ton hydrocrane feeding a 300 HP Morbark 2400 Hurricane WTC ain't easy Jeremy.
Don't know of any hacks who can even come close.
jomoco
Competing with a veteran removal crew with a 70 ton hydrocrane feeding a 300 HP Morbark 2400 Hurricane WTC ain't easy Jeremy.
Don't know of any hacks who can even come close.
jomoco
- Location
- Rochester, NY
Re: Whole Tree Chipper Two Man Minimum Rule Adopti
That's true, but that type of work is only a small % of what we do. Most jobs consist of a mix of small to medium size tree removal, with trimming on the same job. We try to chip everything that we can because it is much easier to dispose of chips.
That's true, but that type of work is only a small % of what we do. Most jobs consist of a mix of small to medium size tree removal, with trimming on the same job. We try to chip everything that we can because it is much easier to dispose of chips.
Re: Whole Tree Chipper Two Man Minimum Rule Adopti
I really don't understand why it would be so hard to stage brush brush until two men can chip it together?
My crews staged brush down the streets for 50 feet at times for goodness sakes.
You guys seem to be fixated on making that groundie chip alone. Why?
It's almost ghoulish.
jomoco
I really don't understand why it would be so hard to stage brush brush until two men can chip it together?
My crews staged brush down the streets for 50 feet at times for goodness sakes.
You guys seem to be fixated on making that groundie chip alone. Why?
It's almost ghoulish.
jomoco
- Location
- Billerica, MA
Re: Whole Tree Chipper Two Man Minimum Rule Adopti
please leave my screen name out of your posts. You either don't understand what i have said or refuse to acknowledge it. I have clearly stated how i feel about this subject in multiple posts
You have misrepresented others in your posts.
You have turned this from a discussion into attacks on everyone who has a different view then you do.
please leave my screen name out of your posts. You either don't understand what i have said or refuse to acknowledge it. I have clearly stated how i feel about this subject in multiple posts
You have misrepresented others in your posts.
You have turned this from a discussion into attacks on everyone who has a different view then you do.
Re: Whole Tree Chipper Two Man Minimum Rule Adopti
Sorry I wasn't standing at the ready to provide a link, I still work for a living. Our whole country is full of the "discriminatory double standards" you speak of. Why do I have to wear a seat belt every time I drive but a person on a motorcycle doesn't even have to wear a helmet? They just passed a law in Virginia so they don't even have to come to a complete stop at a red light or stop sign, but try it in a car or truck and you'll get a ticket.
I guess it should be a three man rule, so if TWO dummies stand together on my 20" chipper and try to kick a jammed piece in and get sucked in, there will still be someone standing by to reverse the feed wheels.
Sorry I wasn't standing at the ready to provide a link, I still work for a living. Our whole country is full of the "discriminatory double standards" you speak of. Why do I have to wear a seat belt every time I drive but a person on a motorcycle doesn't even have to wear a helmet? They just passed a law in Virginia so they don't even have to come to a complete stop at a red light or stop sign, but try it in a car or truck and you'll get a ticket.
I guess it should be a three man rule, so if TWO dummies stand together on my 20" chipper and try to kick a jammed piece in and get sucked in, there will still be someone standing by to reverse the feed wheels.
Re: Whole Tree Chipper Two Man Minimum Rule Adopti
Yes Marquis, you have clearly stated that you believe in your right to send one man out to chip piles of brush alone with a WTC.
I get it. I don't understand it. Don't think it's safe, wise or professional conduct for a tree company owner. Can't understand what makes your chipper operators immune to the mistakes we all make at some point.
But I get it that you think you have that right.
I firmly believe that tree company owners like you are why so many chipper operators get chipped alive alone on the job.
You're not alone. It's quite apparent that lots of tree company owners share your beliefs.
That's the problem.
jomoco
Yes Marquis, you have clearly stated that you believe in your right to send one man out to chip piles of brush alone with a WTC.
I get it. I don't understand it. Don't think it's safe, wise or professional conduct for a tree company owner. Can't understand what makes your chipper operators immune to the mistakes we all make at some point.
But I get it that you think you have that right.
I firmly believe that tree company owners like you are why so many chipper operators get chipped alive alone on the job.
You're not alone. It's quite apparent that lots of tree company owners share your beliefs.
That's the problem.
jomoco
Re: Whole Tree Chipper Two Man Minimum Rule Adopti
Try to at least stay on the topic of treeworker safety on the job Panama.
Thanks.
jomoco
Try to at least stay on the topic of treeworker safety on the job Panama.
Thanks.
jomoco
- Location
- Retired in Minneapolis
Re: Whole Tree Chipper Two Man Minimum Rule Adopti
The horse is gasping...writhing...almost out of life...stop kicking it!
The horse is gasping...writhing...almost out of life...stop kicking it!
Re: Whole Tree Chipper Two Man Minimum Rule Adopti
Funny thing is, I've yet to hear a single one of you explain what makes chipper operators so magically immune to the same sort of mistakes climbers are so afflicted with, that aerial rescue training and certification are an accepted and supported industry wide standard?
Step right up guys. Explain yourselves. Tell me how that's not industry wide discrimination against solo chipper operators?
Could I say the heck with my climbers if they're stupid enough to make a mistake on my jobs?
They shoulda been more careful, followed accepted safe procedures closer?
That I have the right as a tree company owner to send them out to do their dangerous jobs alone because I personally trained them bout how to climb safely and properly?
What's your guys definition of a discriminatory double standard?
Please. I'm here to learn from my professional tree industry peers
jomoco
Funny thing is, I've yet to hear a single one of you explain what makes chipper operators so magically immune to the same sort of mistakes climbers are so afflicted with, that aerial rescue training and certification are an accepted and supported industry wide standard?
Step right up guys. Explain yourselves. Tell me how that's not industry wide discrimination against solo chipper operators?
Could I say the heck with my climbers if they're stupid enough to make a mistake on my jobs?
They shoulda been more careful, followed accepted safe procedures closer?
That I have the right as a tree company owner to send them out to do their dangerous jobs alone because I personally trained them bout how to climb safely and properly?
What's your guys definition of a discriminatory double standard?
Please. I'm here to learn from my professional tree industry peers
jomoco
allmark
Participating member
Re: Whole Tree Chipper Two Man Minimum Rule Adopti
"Funny thing is, I've yet to hear a single one of you explain what makes chipper operators so magically immune to the same sort of mistakes climbers are so afflicted with"
That's because they are not.
You are not comparing apples to apples. There are different reasons for the climbing vs. chipper. Please cite the regulations requiring aerial rescue and certification for me. Then maybe you will see where you are misguided in your beliefs.
"Funny thing is, I've yet to hear a single one of you explain what makes chipper operators so magically immune to the same sort of mistakes climbers are so afflicted with"
That's because they are not.
You are not comparing apples to apples. There are different reasons for the climbing vs. chipper. Please cite the regulations requiring aerial rescue and certification for me. Then maybe you will see where you are misguided in your beliefs.
Re: Whole Tree Chipper Two Man Minimum Rule Adopti
What are those reasons Allmark?
What makes climbers worthy of a second man present on the job?
What makes chipper operators unworthy of a second man on that same job?
Both are treeworkers.
Do you even admit that sending a climber out to climb solo is not an accepted industry practice in the eyes of TCIA and the ISA?
jomoco
What are those reasons Allmark?
What makes climbers worthy of a second man present on the job?
What makes chipper operators unworthy of a second man on that same job?
Both are treeworkers.
Do you even admit that sending a climber out to climb solo is not an accepted industry practice in the eyes of TCIA and the ISA?
jomoco
Re: Whole Tree Chipper Two Man Minimum Rule Adopti
You can't become an ISA certified treeworker without passing the aerial rescue test in the tree rescuing a "dummy".
Do you dispute that fact mate?
jomoco
You can't become an ISA certified treeworker without passing the aerial rescue test in the tree rescuing a "dummy".
Do you dispute that fact mate?
jomoco
- Location
- Billerica, MA
Re: Whole Tree Chipper Two Man Minimum Rule Adopti
[ QUOTE ]
Yes Marquis, you have clearly stated that you believe in your right to send one man out to chip piles of brush alone with a WTC.
I get it. I don't understand it. Don't think it's safe, wise or professional conduct for a tree company owner. Can't understand what makes your chipper operators immune to the mistakes we all make at some point.
But I get it that you think you have that right.
I firmly believe that tree company owners like you are why so many chipper operators get chipped alive alone on the job.
You're not alone. It's quite apparent that lots of tree company owners share your beliefs.
That's the problem.
jomoco
[/ QUOTE ]
?...since reading comprehension is not one of your strengths, I will try again.
Never said anything about brush piles.
Never said there are not situations where two chipper opp are needed.
Your proposed reg (which tcia successfully fought against in California) would ban safe single man chipper opperation.
Such as one man in a bucket cutting small branches while a ground man chips them one at a time keeping the work zone clear an manageable which I believe is safer then making a pile.
Your comparison to aerial rescue is way off. This reg would be like requiring a second climber to be in the tree within in a few feet of the climber at all times to be able to render immediate assistance.
Regulations are very complicated and have broad reaching affects consequences far beyond the very narrow view you have of this issue.
I have wasted to much time on this. Tcia is against a new reg that's all that matters
[ QUOTE ]
Yes Marquis, you have clearly stated that you believe in your right to send one man out to chip piles of brush alone with a WTC.
I get it. I don't understand it. Don't think it's safe, wise or professional conduct for a tree company owner. Can't understand what makes your chipper operators immune to the mistakes we all make at some point.
But I get it that you think you have that right.
I firmly believe that tree company owners like you are why so many chipper operators get chipped alive alone on the job.
You're not alone. It's quite apparent that lots of tree company owners share your beliefs.
That's the problem.
jomoco
[/ QUOTE ]
?...since reading comprehension is not one of your strengths, I will try again.
Never said anything about brush piles.
Never said there are not situations where two chipper opp are needed.
Your proposed reg (which tcia successfully fought against in California) would ban safe single man chipper opperation.
Such as one man in a bucket cutting small branches while a ground man chips them one at a time keeping the work zone clear an manageable which I believe is safer then making a pile.
Your comparison to aerial rescue is way off. This reg would be like requiring a second climber to be in the tree within in a few feet of the climber at all times to be able to render immediate assistance.
Regulations are very complicated and have broad reaching affects consequences far beyond the very narrow view you have of this issue.
I have wasted to much time on this. Tcia is against a new reg that's all that matters
Re: Whole Tree Chipper Two Man Minimum Rule Adopti
In essence saying TCIA is against following or heeding OSHA's number one recommendation to help prevent these grisly medieval forms of incremental death on the job?
Yeah that sounds real compassionate and caring towards your fellow tree workers whether they speak English or not mate.
Can you expound on that sort of logic that's worth 75 bucks a day more for climbers than it is chipper operators?
I mean climbers are an elite special group, that's superior in their worth in terms of additional personnel cost to the owner.
I will not send that climber out alone to the very same job that I will send my chipper operator out alone for. You see the climber's special, they can't be hired from the nearest Wal Mart parking lot for 75 smackers see?
I tell him how it's done? Hey he goofs up? That's his problem! I told him to feed it from the side and stuff.
Does it come with 10% off the top?
jomoco
In essence saying TCIA is against following or heeding OSHA's number one recommendation to help prevent these grisly medieval forms of incremental death on the job?
Yeah that sounds real compassionate and caring towards your fellow tree workers whether they speak English or not mate.
Can you expound on that sort of logic that's worth 75 bucks a day more for climbers than it is chipper operators?
I mean climbers are an elite special group, that's superior in their worth in terms of additional personnel cost to the owner.
I will not send that climber out alone to the very same job that I will send my chipper operator out alone for. You see the climber's special, they can't be hired from the nearest Wal Mart parking lot for 75 smackers see?
I tell him how it's done? Hey he goofs up? That's his problem! I told him to feed it from the side and stuff.
Does it come with 10% off the top?
jomoco
- Location
- Billerica, MA
Re: Whole Tree Chipper Two Man Minimum Rule Adopti
[ QUOTE ]
In essence saying TCIA is against following or heeding OSHA's number one recommendation to help prevent these grisly medieval forms of incremental death on the job?
Yeah that sounds real compassionate and caring towards your fellow tree workers whether they speak English or not mate.
Can you expound on that sort of logic that's worth 75 bucks a day more for climbers than it is chipper operators?
I mean climbers are an elite special group, that's superior in their worth in terms of additional personnel cost to the owner.
I will not send that climber out alone to the very same job that I will send my chipper operator out alone for. You see the climber's special, they can't be hired from the nearest Wal Mart parking lot for 75 smackers see?
I tell him how it's done? Hey he goofs up? That's his problem! I told him to feed it from the side and stuff.
Does it come with 10% off the top?
jomoco
[/ QUOTE ]
Our two man crews are made up of two climbers/bucket opps.
No idea where Walmart came in to this race to the glue factory
[ QUOTE ]
In essence saying TCIA is against following or heeding OSHA's number one recommendation to help prevent these grisly medieval forms of incremental death on the job?
Yeah that sounds real compassionate and caring towards your fellow tree workers whether they speak English or not mate.
Can you expound on that sort of logic that's worth 75 bucks a day more for climbers than it is chipper operators?
I mean climbers are an elite special group, that's superior in their worth in terms of additional personnel cost to the owner.
I will not send that climber out alone to the very same job that I will send my chipper operator out alone for. You see the climber's special, they can't be hired from the nearest Wal Mart parking lot for 75 smackers see?
I tell him how it's done? Hey he goofs up? That's his problem! I told him to feed it from the side and stuff.
Does it come with 10% off the top?
jomoco
[/ QUOTE ]
Our two man crews are made up of two climbers/bucket opps.
No idea where Walmart came in to this race to the glue factory
Re: Whole Tree Chipper Two Man Minimum Rule Adopti
The point I'm trying to emphasize is that the number of crews operating in your undoubtedly well trained and schooled operations, is vastly outnumbered by folks whose standards, ethics and training acumen fall far short of your's.
This majority of shady operators is actually empowered and insulated against liability for their unsavory conduct, by your discriminatory stance against solo chipper operators, whose safety in your opinion, is not worth the cost of an extra operator, the way climbers are?
But yu see, OSHA has to deal with cleaning up after both pros and hacks alike.
When you advocate against following their number one recommendation to help lessen and possibly prevent these gruesome on the job fatalities?
You actually empower that parking lot scoundrel to exploit the very lives of whoever he hires that morning for 50 bucks, provided he gives them a modicum of safe WTC operations in their language.
You may indeed, and no doubt do run a tight ship Marquis, but maintaining your stance against a WTC two man minimum rule, facilitates increasing the number of chipper fatalities nationally due to scurrilous behaviors of parking lot moralists on the prowl.
Not exactly a professional gold standard that bears close public scrutiny IMO.
jomoco
The point I'm trying to emphasize is that the number of crews operating in your undoubtedly well trained and schooled operations, is vastly outnumbered by folks whose standards, ethics and training acumen fall far short of your's.
This majority of shady operators is actually empowered and insulated against liability for their unsavory conduct, by your discriminatory stance against solo chipper operators, whose safety in your opinion, is not worth the cost of an extra operator, the way climbers are?
But yu see, OSHA has to deal with cleaning up after both pros and hacks alike.
When you advocate against following their number one recommendation to help lessen and possibly prevent these gruesome on the job fatalities?
You actually empower that parking lot scoundrel to exploit the very lives of whoever he hires that morning for 50 bucks, provided he gives them a modicum of safe WTC operations in their language.
You may indeed, and no doubt do run a tight ship Marquis, but maintaining your stance against a WTC two man minimum rule, facilitates increasing the number of chipper fatalities nationally due to scurrilous behaviors of parking lot moralists on the prowl.
Not exactly a professional gold standard that bears close public scrutiny IMO.
jomoco
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