Whole Tree Chipper Two Man Minimum Rule Adoption?

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Re: Whole Tree Chipper Two Man Minimum Rule Adopti

Not quite CT.

Vermeer's bump bar is designed to shut things down before you find yourself inside the feed chute. Whereas Morbark's panic handles were designed and produced to help those poor unfortunates who make a mistake and find themselves inside the feed chute.

An important distinction legally speaking.

jomoco
 
Re: Whole Tree Chipper Two Man Minimum Rule Adopti

[ QUOTE ]
Well, we lost a ground worker today.

Goddamn our three person crew! (Now two)

I was keeping an eye on the climber and an eye on the guy chipping, and then the unthinkable happened. It was like something out of Sophie's Choice.

The climber appeared thirsty at exactly the same time the groundman got tangled in a bunch of ivy-wrapped branches.

Both his hands were bound pretty tightly, and he was slowly being dragged toward his doom. But then, there was that climber up there, wiping his brow and still looking parched.

So I ran for the cooler and grabbed a jug of cold water and got it tied on the line as fast as I could.

The groundman escaped the tangled branches on his own, somehow, but it frightened him badly and he resigned moments later.

So, we lost a ground worker today.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sometimes the hardest choices are the ones that are so freaking crystal clear.

Bonus points for keeping the climber hydrated.

Obviously your former ground worker doesn't understand hierarchy.

SZ
 
Re: Whole Tree Chipper Two Man Minimum Rule Adopti

[ QUOTE ]
Not quite CT.

Vermeer's bump bar is designed to shut things down before you find yourself inside the feed chute. Whereas Morbark's panic handles were designed and produced to help those poor unfortunates who make a mistake and find themselves inside the feed chute.

An important distinction legally speaking.

jomoco

[/ QUOTE ] no not really they are all designed to prevent the final outcome of a bad accident, training is designed to prevent the accident in the first place, rules are designed to persecute the survivors of an accident.
 
Re: Whole Tree Chipper Two Man Minimum Rule Adopti

That Morbark panic handle is a manufacturer's admission that their chippers are dangerous enough to warrant an in chute safety system for mistake prone operators.

That's self evident.

You guys arguing your chipper operators never make mistakes that can get them in trouble?

Well, it seems two chipper manufacturers disagree with tall tales bout chipper operators being magically immune from the human frailties that affect us all.

Even climbers bumping their heads and needing assistance from their fellow coworkers nearby.

jomoco
 
Re: Whole Tree Chipper Two Man Minimum Rule Adopti

[ QUOTE ]
That ______ is a manufacturer's admission that their _____are dangerous enough to warrant a/n_____safety system for mistake prone operators.



[/ QUOTE ]

Fill in the blanks with whatever safety procedure, system protocol or PPE that you care to.

Life vests/PFDs
Seat belts
GFCI
Helmets for just about any activity
Safety glass
Guard rails
Throttle interlocks on all sorts of tools...my 18v DeWalt circle saw has an interlock...my 110V Milwaukee doesn't
 
Re: Whole Tree Chipper Two Man Minimum Rule Adopti

Yes and we're tree workers debating the best most practical means of preventing or at least lessening the numbers of our fellow treeworkers being eaten alive each year in such a gruesome cruel inhumane manner, alone?

My climbers have all been properly trained and instructed see?

Therefor your costly idea of training and certifying another employee to be there on the job to rescue them if they make a mistake?

No, my climbers expertise is such that I refuse to bear the cost of that additional employee and burdensome industry best practice.

I claim the right to send them out on my jobs solo. Just like I claim the right to send my chipper operators out solo. Regardless of how big or powerful that chipper may be, or how nasty and big my climber's tree may be.

You guys don't argue bout your rights sending climbers out solo to anywhere near the degree you argue the right to send chipper operators solo.

Why is that?

One's more highly valued than the other?

jomoco
 
Re: Whole Tree Chipper Two Man Minimum Rule Adopti

[ QUOTE ]
I think they'd believe that Morbark put those last chance panick handles inside their big chipper's feed chutes for a dang good reason.

And I further think every reasonable minded jurist would see that as irrefutable and self evident proof that the manufacturers themselves are acutely aware of just how dangerous their big chippers truly are.

By not meeting each other half way and establish that cut off point between safely solo fed small chippers, and un safely hand fed big chippers?

We'll end up getting the very blanket all chipper rule we all dread for being so macho stubborn bout my chipper operators never making mistakes!

When there's clear tangible evidence that they sometimes do.

jomoco

[/ QUOTE ]

Serious? I hate myself for continuing this.
The last chance cables are in all size machines. You really need to stop calling a bc1800 a whole tree chipper...
 
Re: Whole Tree Chipper Two Man Minimum Rule Adopti

[ QUOTE ]


Serious? I hate myself for continuing this.
The last chance cables are in all size machines. You really need to stop calling a bc1800 a whole tree chipper...

[/ QUOTE ]

Can a 1000 eat a whole 18 inch tree whole the way an 1800 can Dave?

jomoco
 
Re: Whole Tree Chipper Two Man Minimum Rule Adopti

Affects companies with in house cranes to a minimum in my career so far.

The best crane company in San Diego not only lets me ride their hooks, they gave seminars at our local professional tree care association starring you know who, ridin the locked and twin rigged hook. One locked steel shackle for my rigging, another for my climbing line's leather tubed cambium saver.

My best crane assisted removal advice is to beware CO's with no tree experience trying to over rule your own best practices on the job.

Tell em to take a hike.

jomoco
 
Re: Whole Tree Chipper Two Man Minimum Rule Adopti

[ QUOTE ]

My best crane assisted removal advice is to beware CO's with no tree experience trying to over rule your own best practices on the job.

Tell em to take a hike.

jomoco

[/ QUOTE ]

I would say the same thingabout chipper operators. Beware the chipper operator that puts them in harms way to forsake the botton line. Cut it so it can be fed properly.
 
Re: Whole Tree Chipper Two Man Minimum Rule Adopti

If you are admit about this go to the next ansi meeting with your proposed rules. You will get much farther than going to osha
 
Re: Whole Tree Chipper Two Man Minimum Rule Adopti

Neither the mistake prone CO or chipper operator deserves to die such a gruesome death for their on the job mistakes.

jomoco
 
Re: Whole Tree Chipper Two Man Minimum Rule Adopti

[ QUOTE ]
If you are admit about this go to the next ansi meeting with your proposed rules. You will get much farther than going to osha

[/ QUOTE ]

Hear him! Hear him!

Or...at least submit a written comment to the Z133 Committee. All of this discussion here is really no more, maybe less, than coffee table talk.
 
Re: Whole Tree Chipper Two Man Minimum Rule Adopti

[ QUOTE ]
Affects companies with in house cranes to a minimum in my career so far.

The best crane company in San Diego not only let's me ride their hooks, they gave seminars at our local professional tree care association starring you know who, ridin the locked and twin rigged hook. One locked steel shackle for my rigging, another for my climbing line's leather tubed cambium saver.

My best crane assisted removal advice is to beware CO's with no tree experience trying to over rule your own best practices on the job.

Tell em to take a hike.

jomoco

[/ QUOTE ]

Your ignorance and lack of experience with regulations is clear from your last post. You use what a rental crane company "lets you do" repersant what the standard is?
You need some experience beyond just climbing on a job. Running a business and complying with regulations is something you obviously have no experience with.
Your heart is in the right place but this isnt the way to save lives
 
Re: Whole Tree Chipper Two Man Minimum Rule Adopti

The rule change I'm proposing saved the lives of three chipper operators on my crews.

On the job firsthand experience gets deferred for professorial speculations on why two men working together is not the answer?

He says they go in fast, within two seconds. Yet each of my operators that got dragon tailed off their feet had 5-10 seconds before the second man reacted in time in a real live on the job situation with 1800's.

Go figure!

Yu think maybe Morbark has them in chute last chance at life panic handles for a particular reason?

jomoco
 
Re: Whole Tree Chipper Two Man Minimum Rule Adopti

[ QUOTE ]
The rule change I'm proposing saved the lives of three chipper operators on my crews.

On the job firsthand experience gets deferred for professorial speculations on why two men working together is not the answer?

He says they go in fast, within two seconds. Yet each of my operators that got dragon tailed off their feet had 5-10 seconds before the second man reacted in time in a real live on the job situation with 1800's.

Go figure!

Yu think maybe Morbark has them in chute last chance at life panic handles for a particular reason?

jomoco

[/ QUOTE ]

You have refused to respond everytime someone has asked "why did you have 3 close calls in the first place? "
 
Re: Whole Tree Chipper Two Man Minimum Rule Adopti

It is a broken record. He will now say he did...dragon tail dragon tail.

when you ask why were they in the dragon tail area. he say one guy can not feed whole trees into a chipper without entering that zone for leverage.

And then we repeat. without farther explanation

oops I forgot OSHA OSHA



He wont take responsibility for the fact that he didnt train his chipper operators correctly. And force them to cut them up some, to avoid the dragon tail effect. Instead he allowed them to practice a unsafe method and therefore intentionally putting them in danger. Which now he apparently feels guilty for, but yet cant admit he was in error. So he wants more regulations to hep prevent more deaths. Even though it wont stop the dragon tail effect that causes the deaths.
 
Re: Whole Tree Chipper Two Man Minimum Rule Adopti

[ QUOTE ]
Try to at least stay on the topic of treeworker safety on the job Panama.

Thanks.

jomoco

[/ QUOTE ]

Didn't mean to get under your skin, it just seems as if you are really "on a mission" with this one. It seems like you expected us all to just agree with your point of view, as if any other is just plain wrong. Good luck with that. I respect your opinion, but disagree. I'm not against safety at all. In my area, we are one of the few that use hard hats, safety glasses, hearing protection etc. It is obvious, REGULATION means nothing without ENFORCEMENT. Though not as gruesome, I appears far more tree workers are killed from "struck-by's" than whole tree chippers. One would think all we had to do to stop these type of deaths would be to REQUIRE hard hat usage. Oh, we have done that FOREVER without preventing these type deaths.
 
Re: Whole Tree Chipper Two Man Minimum Rule Adopti

[ QUOTE ]
It is a broken record. He will now say he did...dragon tail dragon tail.

when you ask why were they in the dragon tail area. he say one guy can not feed whole trees into a chipper without entering that zone for leverage.

And then we repeat. without farther explanation

oops I forgot OSHA OSHA



He wont take responsibility for the fact that he didnt train his chipper operators correctly. And force them to cut them up some, to avoid the dragon tail effect. Instead he allowed them to practice a unsafe method and therefore intentionally putting them in danger. Which now he apparently feels guilty for, but yet cant admit he was in error. So he wants more regulations to hep prevent more deaths. Even though it wont stop the dragon tail effect that causes the deaths.

[/ QUOTE ]

I know, just having fun, seeing how many times he can say the exact same thing without responding to anyone elses questions or views. I am starting to think he is just messing with us
cool.gif
 
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