Who runs legit?

I run legit. It's costly.

Question: Are homeowners really at any potential major financial disadvantage by hiring companys with no workers comp? If a worker were killed working at their house, how could they be found at fault?? And wouldn't their homeowners insurance cover any lawsuits anyway?
 
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I run legit. It's costly.

Question: Are homeowners really at any potential major financial disadvantage by hiring companys with no workers comp? If a worker were killed working at their house, how could they be found at fault?? And wouldn't their homeowners insurance cover any lawsuits anyway?

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If memory serves me their was a case in TX a year or two ago where a couple hired an unlicensed non WC carrying company. Worker was hurt or killed (don't remember), courts allowed the worker to sue the couple, and won. Made national news. Courts said that since they hired the contractor it was up to them to verify their legitimacy, not the homeowners insurance to do that AFTER the accident occured.....thats what I can recall now a few years later.
 
Doesn't make sense, what did the HO do that was negligent to cause the injury??

And even if your account is accurate, with all the fly by nights working out there, a HO rarely gets in hot water for hiring one of them, apparently.
 
The way I understood it, was that the HO didn't verify that the contractor had the proper insurances. HO insurance wouldn't cover or help with the lawsuit due to the HO hiring an unqualified contractor. Why they were held negligible for the workers injuries is beyond me.

put it in tree terms.........

Fly by night comes over with insurance docs, you hire them without verifying they are up to date. Unbeknownst to you their insurance lapped last month due to NON payment. Workers put a piece through your roof, it bounces down and hits your patio and puts a hole in your pool. Thousands of $'s worth of damages. You feel the HO insurance should cover these damages due to you, the HO, hiring an unqualified contractor?

How many times a week are your salesman asked to fax/email/mail over a VALID proof of insurance from your insurance agents office? I would say at least 1-2 times a DAY we are asked for ours, and are not permitted to go forward with the work until these documents have been provided.

I'm not saying the TX case was right, just citing a relevant news story.
 
BB is correct. It does not matter if you are an arborist, painter, gutter cleaner, roofer etc. If a HO hires a company with out WC insurance and that worker gets injured or killed the HO will be resonsible. A rock climbling guy I climbed with got hurt cleaning gutters and sued the HO and won no ploblem.
 
When your customers ask why your price is higher than a known fly by night operation, ask them the questions. Are they insured? have you verified this through there insurance agent? Do they carry WC insurance? Have you verified this through there insurance agent? Will a certified Arborist be on site performing the work? Have you verified this information?
 
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BB is correct. It does not matter if you are an arborist, painter, gutter cleaner, roofer etc. If a HO hires a company with out WC insurance and that worker gets injured or killed the HO will be responsible.

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You may be correct but that's not common knowledge, afaik. I'm going to call my agent and find out.

If correct, that sounds crazy liberal, for lack of a better word. A bum who doesn't have the brains or guts to set things up legit, goes out and gets hurt and then he is going to make someone else pay for the consequences of his poor choices?? That's wack.

Edit: If correct, than there is zero incentive for fly by nites to get insurance.
 
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When your customers ask why your price is higher than a known fly by night operation, ask them the questions. Are they insured? have you verified this through there insurance agent? Do they carry WC insurance? Have you verified this through there insurance agent? Will a certified Arborist be on site performing the work? Have you verified this information?

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Good call, B.
 
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If you "invite" someone on your property you are held liable.

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This is based on very old law. Nothing current about how this is applied.

When I was at the airport waiting for my ride to the Rec. Tr. Clmbg. Rendezvous I talked with a couple who saw my gear bag. In our conversation I told them about hiring ANY contractors. They were having a plumber come over and were going to ask for WC/liability ins. documents because of my cautions. Most consumers have no clue about their potential liabilities. But, they go to the casino to gamble and know the odds there...go figger.
 
My insurance agent states that if a HO had an uninsured worker working on his property and the guy got hurt, the HO could indeed be sued by the worker, and the HO's HO insurance policy would cover all the damages up to the limit of the policy if the worker won the suit, and he probably would win the suit cuz the HO hired him.

That is unfortunate information for the us legit guys because it indicates there is little incentive for fly by nights to get insurance- a HO will get a much cheaper price from an uninsured outfit and if something goes wrong with the job and there is damage or injury, the HO won't likely have to pay out of pocket for anything cuz the HO insurance will cover it.
 
We don,t have too many illegals here though we do have a sort of two tier system of employment ,legit and not legit.Me i have always run somewhere in the middle .Thing i've found in business is you need some kind of edge to get ahead of the rest of the game. Sadly sounds like the game is to run with illegals to get ahead in your area .My thoughts are that the enforcement of the rules is lax ,which enables a situation to occur like this. I feel for you as it sounds like it's driven you from something you love. Good luck , hope you find some niche in the tree industry.
 
DanielSon, I hear you and I understand where you’re coming from, in fact I think most readers on this forum, as Sean said, “feel your pain.” You feel your ability to be competitively priced and to be profitable has been destroyed by companies which evade payroll taxes and workers’ compensation premiums. I do not doubt that your intuition is correct when you guess that most Atlanta tree services are avoiding required overhead that you are paying—although the lack of Atlanta tree service responses thus far is not evidence for your claim, as others have already noted.

I imagine this is an issue for many small service businesses throughout the country, especially during the current economic climate. It appears your solution is to sell your saws and hang up your spikes; that seems to be an entirely appropriate response to your circumstances. It’s not fun to have potential customers perceive your proposal as some eye-popping price gouging.

I wish you luck and good fortune in future endeavors; you certainly have plenty of passion and enthusiasm.

Those of us who choose to stay in the tree industry will still have to face these problems daily. Jamin Mayer offers one solution, an information package. Sean offered some helpful questions for each of us to ask ourselves, and Riggs gave us some real world pragmatism. There have also been a few comments on the customers’ responsibility when hiring contractors. Does anyone have documentation or can anyone point us to specific court cases in specific jurisdictions where the customer has faced financial consequences from hiring an “illegitimate” tree company? As Tom noted, “most customers have no clue about their potential liabilities.” Perhaps we need to do a better job of educating our clients. Are there definitive cases where the customer has not been protected by their home owner’s policy?

I work in southeastern Virginia, locally known as Hampton Roads. One competitive issue that we have here is bulk waste city trucks picking up the debris from a tree removal. It’s difficult to compete with a “tree service” that has no need to pay for trucks, brush chippers and their associated maintenance and operating costs, including disposal fees. Attached is a picture of a city-owned bulk waste truck working in conjunction with a tree service (a tree service with their own chip truck and chipper). Even after I spoke with the city driver about the tree service being in violation of local bulk waste pick up ordinances, the driver picked up the material anyway. If you look to the right in the photo, you can see a log being carted to the waiting city truck. I’m curious about how many other U.S. localities have this problem.
 

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Seems like a pretty low threashhold to evaluate professionalism - having insurance and hiring from the country's legal workforce.

What the heck? No wonder urban tree work has one of the highest injury rates.

Consumer education seems like the most efficient cure. Repeat repeat.
 
In the previous photo, the city driver was cooperating with the tree service, albeit illegally. I did not see any money change hands, although that is what I suspect is happening. I see the city picking up debris left by tree services on a fairly regular basis here.
 
What I read before is that when the homeowner hires an uninsured contractor they become the general contractor and that is how the homeowner insurance can get out of paying.
 

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