Vaccine Mandate

[Frankie 1]

Upon further review the stats say 45000 people died at home so on that I stand corrected

 

[owScott]

As stated I'm not against the vaccine, whether 100% effective or not. I'm against the mandate of it be forced...especially by the federal government and even more so by osha (osha has nothing to do with diseases). I'm against a President going it unilaterally without congress and actual laws being voted on. If mandated by a state, then it is more acceptable (especially if passed by their congress etc).

Why should we be forced to take it, if it isn't effective? If it is effective why should we have to take it to save othersthat have?

Quite a few states don't require helmets on motorcycles. I wear my seat belt because it is safer for me, by choice. Others do not by choice. Personally I font think that should be a law either. But driving is a privilege, not a right. To take advantage of that privilege one of the laws says I have to wear a seat belt or be fined if caught. Seat belt/helmets is something that I put on my body, not in...huge difference. Those would better correlate to masks. As to that correlation, I'd say seatbelts/helmets are way more protective than majority of masks and have less side effects of wearing (dirty, improperly, air quality, number of times used etc).

The biggest other option? Natural immunity from having the strong antibodies, or from previously having covid. And that I'm probably more liking to die in a car accident than from covid, even if I already have Covid currently.

I think thats a fair response. I dont much care for the government mandating things as well. Just for me it isnt a big deal. I choose to pick a fight about freedom when it really matters. This isnt one of those times. I am in a state that doesnt require helmets on motorcylces and that doesnt bother me, I wear my helmet on my bike and wear a selt because it makes sense. I think we are closer to agreeing than disagreeing. I do appreciate the fact that your response addressed my questions and is your opinion not some far off topic rant.

 

[Dan Cobb]

In fact the sheriff could under certain circumstances deputize certain members of the community (myself included) and give me full power to arrest ,detain and jail certain “undesirables”.

In my county, being categorized as an "undesirable" by someone is not an arrestable offense. Probable cause for a reasonable person to believe a crime is about to be committed, is being committed, or was committed is required for an arrest. Reasonable articulable suspicion is required for a detention.

 

[evo]

Jonny ... Death is death bro - whether from heart disease, cancer, flu, drowning, suicide, alcoholism,dementia , murder, covid etc etc ... The end result is the same! I used heart disease as an example because it has a similar number of yearly deaths as covid does (roughly 1 in 500) yet we haven’t been constantly bombarded 24/7 by the media about heart disease like we have about covid the past 18months and we most certainly haven’t been subject to any “mandates” while the yearly death totals are similar - they aren’t checking your “heart health status” at the store and telling you, nope sorry bro we can’t sell you those smokes (at least not yet muhahaha) ... Hmm wonder why? Funny how no one is dying of covid at home ... They are all dying in hospital, where they are supposedly being cured. Anyhoo why in certain folks minds is a death from (? , say heart disease) somehow “ less worthy” and doesn’t seem to warrant the same response as a death from covid? After all, its about public health right? I’m not drinking the koolaid and it appear that the majority in this thread feel the same

Are you really that dense? Heart disease has many causal agents at play. Eliminate one and you might reduce that 1:500 to 8/9:500 at most. Now covid has one cause, covid-19…. That is fucken huge bro..
and enough with this utter bullshit of gene therapy with the vaccine. It doesn’t alter your dna nittwit. It’s been tested and in the works since the 60’s! Now there is the triad J&J vax and no one is saying which vax your ass has to get.
This is some stupid ass bullshit for an argument. The mRNA vax’s have something like 7 ingredients, can’t come anywhere close to the same with triad vaxes….

Now the autistic thing, something that’s close and dear.. it was a valid concern that has been since disproven.

 

[climbhightree]

Are you really that dense? Heart disease has many causal agents at play. Eliminate one and you might reduce that 1:500 to 8/9:500 at most. Now covid has one cause, covid-19….

You can actually say the same about covid deaths. All most all covid deaths involved one or more comorbidities. Covid may have been the straw that weakened them, but they had other high risk issues. This would include my uncle. Knowing him, he probably wouldn't have changed how he lived his life leading up to getting Covid.

The number of healthy people that have died strictly from cobid is extremely low.

 

[Frankie 1]

Are you really that dense? Heart disease has many causal agents at play. Eliminate one and you might reduce that 1:500 to 8/9:500 at most. Now covid has one cause, covid-19…. That is fucken huge bro..
and enough with this utter bullshit of gene therapy with the vaccine. It doesn’t alter your dna nittwit. It’s been tested and in the works since the 60’s! Now there is the triad J&J vax and no one is saying which vax your ass has to get.
This is some stupid ass bullshit for an argument. The mRNA vax’s have something like 7 ingredients, can’t come anywhere close to the same with triad vaxes….

Now the autistic thing, something that’s close and dear.. it was a valid concern that has been since disproven.

Are you? You can’t be that naive that you believe the $39000/ death wasn’t incentivizing the cause of death to be listed as covid ... Cmon man , did ya just fall off the turnip truck or what ? The only way you weren’t dying of covid is if you arrived at hospital riddled with bullets! Many folk died with covid but not from covid yet covid was listed on the death certificate. This is common knowledge to most who have been paying attention. The biological potion you call a vaccine is gene-therapy. Messenger rna IS genetic material so in that sense the vaccines are genetically based therapy. The FDA however classifies them as vaccines. I’m not making any claims that it alters your dna although I’ve read reverse transcription can occur but the chances are infinitesimally small. This particular biological potion has never been tested in humans but it has in animals ... with results I’ll let you look up for yourself.

 

[owScott]

You can actually say the same about covid deaths. All most all covid deaths involved one or more comorbidities. Covid may have been the straw that weakened them, but they had other high risk issues. This would include my uncle. Knowing him, he probably wouldn't have changed how he lived his life leading up to getting Covid.

The number of healthy people that have died strictly from cobid is extremely low.

I disagree on1 point. Are you saying covid weakended them then the comorbidities are what ultimately killed them. Isnt that backwards. Didnt the comorbidities come 1st then covid finished it. A drought stressed tree that then gets borers then declines and dies. Do you tell the customer the tree died from drought stress? No you tell them the tree died from borers brought on by drought stress, still cause of the death in the end, borers. This arguement that covid isnt the final cause of death because they had pre exsisting issues is basically saying their other issues would have killed them anyway so thats the cause of death. Simply put if these people didnt contract covid they would still be alive, for how long thats not relevant. True the number of healthy people who die is low, what about the fact that alot of unhealthy people have died, dont they count. To be clear in no way am I addressing any aspect of your uncle, as i wish to remain respectful on that subject. Just trying to follow the reasoning.

 

[Dan Cobb]

To some degree, we're all tree guys and gals. We're not epidemiologists or bioengineers. And individual knowledge is paltry compared to collective knowledge. Do you think any one person knows how to build a commercial launch rocket? It's too complex for an individual, but not for a collection of individuals. I think all the covid and vaccine stuff is also way too complex for a single highly trained and experienced individual to have full knowledge, much less a tree person. If you believe you're very knowledgeable on this subject, you're suffering from the Dunning-Kruger effect. We rely on others for the information used to form our opinions. Using consistent information from the most reputable sources is a good strategy for forming accurate opinions.

I don't believe anyone here professes to know everything about trees and tree work, so I'm pretty sure we're not covid experts. I think most here would question tree-related stuff that goes against the consensus of the tree experts, rather than claiming it's the truth and there's a conspiracy to suppress or deny it.

I know a source that shows properly felling a tree is done wearing a t-shirt, beach shorts and flip flops. But it's not a reputable source, nor is it confirmed by other reputable sources.

Discussion and debate are great. However, I give little credence to unsubstantiated claims and those from dubious sources. I do appreciate getting new-to-me information that comes from good, and preferably multiple, sources. And while we all have our opinions, in the end, there is only one set of facts, which many professionals are diligently working to uncover.

 

[Frankie 1]

Search Pfizer criminal history yourself or here’s a link ... https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2875889/#idm139632063636112title... wake up sunshine

 

[climbhightree]

I disagree on1 point. Are you saying covid weakended them then the comorbidities are what ultimately killed them. Isnt that backwards. Didnt the comorbidities come 1st then covid finished it. A drought stressed tree that then gets borers then declines and dies. Do you tell the customer the tree died from drought stress? No you tell them the tree died from borers brought on by drought stress, still cause of the death in the end, borers. This arguement that covid isnt the final cause of death because they had pre exsisting issues is basically saying their other issues would have killed them anyway so thats the cause of death. Simply put if these people didnt contract covid they would still be alive, for how long thats not relevant. True the number of healthy people who die is low, what about the fact that alot of unhealthy people have died, dont they count. To be clear in no way am I addressing any aspect of your uncle, as i wish to remain respectful on that subject. Just trying to follow the reasoning.

Actually I usually tell them the tree's death was brought on by a combination of stressors. It is rarely just one thing. The borers most likely wouldn't have attacked a healthy tree. If you keep a tree healthy with fertilizer (vitamins) and proper soil conditions etc (exercise, healthy living) the risk of borers attacking or killing a tree go way down.

It also depends on the comorbidties. The covid weakened their immunity and health, which allowed the other issue they had to get stronger or come back. Sometimes the combination of the two allows another stressor to get involved, which may have been the last straw.

I'm not saying covid didn't play its part, and maybe a big part. Just saying other issues did too. In my opinion there was definitely cases where covid was listed as cause of death, but the person was already on their way out due to other health issues (some very close to being dead from those issues).

 

[JCB]

JCB

"The January 6th fiasco is laughable theatre." You're trippin' Man!

Anyone with a patriotic impulse left in him would be ashamed to write those words. What would you consider an actual threat to democracy, a bomb dropped on the Capitol? I'm not sure what psychotropic meds you're taking but I sure hope that they take them off the market soon--before we lose everything that our predecessors (and current patriots) fought for.

And I'm afraid I cannot avoid getting personal about your ridiculous, harmful, immoral stances when your blog-handle is "Chaplain." Now that, in a very sad way, is laughable theatre!

Think what you like. Only time will tell whether my claims have any substance. Then the question will be how would you feel about being manipulated by MSM. Will try and find that video to put some context into the discussion

It had better be a video of school children playing on the Capitol lawn on January 6th!

 

[climbhightree]

JCB

"The January 6th fiasco is laughable theatre." You're trippin' Man!

Anyone with a patriotic impulse left in him would be ashamed to write those words. What would you consider an actual threat to democracy, a bomb dropped on the Capitol? I'm not sure what psychotropic meds you're taking but I sure hope that they take them off the market soon--before we lose everything that our predecessors (and current patriots) fought for.

And I'm afraid I cannot avoid getting personal about your ridiculous, harmful, immoral stances when your blog-handle is "Chaplain." Now that, in a very sad way, is laughable theatre!



It had better be a video of school children playing on the Capitol lawn on January 6th!

Jan 6th was wrong and illegal, but so were the blm riots. Both were people who got frustrated and protested. Then they reached a boiling point, because they felt like they weren't being heard...and went too far.

There were no guns at Jan. 6th, so it was hardly an insurrection. They only disrupted they government for a couple hours, and they property damage was minimal (relatively). You could also say it was their own property, since the people pay for it.

The blm riots has caused millions in private and government property damage, and has disrupted things a lot longer than 2 hours.

Both are wrong. You can hardly point a finger at radical behavior on one side with out also pointing a finger at radical behavior on the other side. Both were supported, either directly or indirectly, by government people.

Protest is OK. Violence is not. Period.

 

[rico]

Do you smoke cigs? Or do any drugs, including mj? (rhetorical question)

If you do or don't, should they be legal? Why? Is it because people should have the right to put something in their body if they want, even if it causes harm and can affect other if done to extremes. Therefore why can't I choose not to put a vaccine in me, if you are protected. Why can't I take the risk of getting covid, like cancer from smoking or frying brain cells.

Is it because they deserve that right to look for alternatives "medicine" outside of the traditional medicines? So why can I trust natural antibodies, or from other treatments that have been proven to help outside of the vaccine?

And the ripple effects of choosing not to get vaccinated continue to steam-roll our healthcare systems, our economy, and our society.

https://www.media.pa.gov/pages/health-details.aspx?newsid=1595

“This data is further proof that the vaccines are our best tool to protect ourselves against the virus, keep our children learning in schools, keep our workforce in-person, and foster social and economic recovery”

 

[rico]

Jan 6th was wrong and illegal, but so were the blm riots. Both were people who got frustrated and protested. Then they reached a boiling point, because they felt like they weren't being heard...and went too far.

There were no guns at Jan. 6th, so it was hardly an insurrection. They only disrupted they government for a couple hours, and they property damage was minimal (relatively). You could also say it was their own property, since the people pay for it.

The blm riots has caused millions in private and government property damage, and has disrupted things a lot longer than 2 hours.

Both are wrong. You can hardly point a finger at radical behavior on one side with out also pointing a finger at radical behavior on the other side. Both were supported, either directly or indirectly, by government people.

Protest is OK. Violence is not. Period.

The objective of Jan 6th was to stop and/or change the certification of the 2020 presidential elections, and instead install the loser of the 2020 election. Full stop, and no amount of your whataboutism can change this simple fact.

 

[climbhightree]

And the ripple effects of choosing not to get vaccinated continue to steam-roll our healthcare systems, our economy, and our society.

https://www.media.pa.gov/pages/health-details.aspx?newsid=1595

“This data is further proof that the vaccines are our best tool to protect ourselves against the virus, keep our children learning in schools, keep our workforce in-person, and foster social and economic recovery”

Once again, I'm not opposed to you getting it, or others. Just don't think one should be forced to get it. Either that vaccine protects and individual or it doesn't. If I choose to be unhealthy, that is my decision whether vaccine, smoking, what I eat, not exercising etc.

How much $ and hospitalization does smoking cause, or obesity, heart disease etc. You can't just single out one thing, when there are others that are doing the same thing for decades.)

 

[climbhightree]

The objective of Jan 6th was to stop and/or change the certification of the 2020 presidential elections, and instead install the loser of the 2020 election. Full stop, and no amount of your whataboutism can change this simply fact.

But did it, no. Do you know the thoughts and reasons of everyone there, no. So you don't know what the plan was. We're they trying to disrupt things, yes...just like blm riots. Did they actually thing it would make a difference, I doubt it...they were just frustrated and acted out (which doesn't make it right). I only idiots would try to actually take over a government without guns etc.

 

[owScott]

Actually I usually tell them the tree's death was brought on by a combination of stressors. It is rarely just one thing. The borers most likely wouldn't have attacked a healthy tree. If you keep a tree healthy with fertilizer (vitamins) and proper soil conditions etc (exercise, healthy living) the risk of borers attacking or killing a tree go way down.

It also depends on the comorbidties. The covid weakened their immunity and health, which allowed the other issue they had to get stronger or come back. Sometimes the combination of the two allows another stressor to get involved, which may have been the last straw.

I'm not saying covid didn't play its part, and maybe a big part. Just saying other issues did too. In my opinion there was definitely cases where covid was listed as cause of death, but the person was already on their way out due to other health issues (some very close to being dead from those issues).

I think we are close to saying the same thing.

Jan 6th was wrong and illegal, but so were the blm riots. Both were people who got frustrated and protested. Then they reached a boiling point, because they felt like they weren't being heard...and went too far.

There were no guns at Jan. 6th, so it was hardly an insurrection. They only disrupted they government for a couple hours, and they property damage was minimal (relatively). You could also say it was their own property, since the people pay for it.

The blm riots has caused millions in private and government property damage, and has disrupted things a lot longer than 2 hours.

Both are wrong. You can hardly point a finger at radical behavior on one side with out also pointing a finger at radical behavior on the other side. Both were supported, either directly or indirectly, by government people.

Protest is OK. Violence is not. Period.

Thats whataboutism. Guns dont need to be involved for it to be an insurrection. Google it. A violent uprising against a n authority or government is the exact defination google provides. And you dont know if people had concealed guns.

 

[Dan Cobb]

...I only idiots would try to actually take over a government without guns etc.

Well said!

But they gave it a valiant effort using what they had.

 

[owScott]

But did it, no. Do you know the thoughts and reasons of everyone there, no. So you don't know what the plan was. We're they trying to disrupt things, yes...just like blm riots. Did they actually thing it would make a difference, I doubt it...they were just frustrated and acted out (which doesn't make it right). I only idiots would try to actually take over a government without guns etc.

Take over, using guns isnt part of the definition of insurrection. Uprising is the word. Just call it what it is and move on it doesnt diminish your agrument. I agree blm protesters destroying property and attacking police is unacceptable. What each group is protesting is relevant . People who were arrested on both side should suffer the consequence if found guilty of breaking the law.

 

[owScott]

One side was protesting the treatment of a certain group of people and wants that to change. The other protesters are pissed off that they lost an election and cant, in court produce an credible evidence to support their claims. So they tried to forcefully stop the peaceful transfer of power. Anybody who cant see that clear difference isnt being honest.