Vaccine Mandate

[owScott]

The January 6th protest (not the riot of breaking in etc), and other rallies, was about liberty and freedom, capitalism vs socialism, small government vs big, about governors shutting down businesses etc.

Let me rephrase then. Most if not all conservatives that I know, or listen to, condemned the Jan 6th violence. Yet they are still condemned themselves by the left.

Come on, Maybe you should re listen to Trump and other republicans speeches the day of the insurrection. They were pretty clear about that this was about the election being stolen from them. Trump re stated that point in his video after the riot. Saying j6 was about these other things doesnt bode well for yourself and other conservatives. Stop trying to put lipstick on a pig. So you are telling me j6 was a protest to just re enforce well know conservative principals and few people took it too far? Yeah hanging Mike Pence and stop the steal had alot to do with liberty and freedom, capitalism vs socicalism etc. So I guess tomorrow is about protesting the treatment of political prisoners? Or are these people that are being held to account for breaking the law. We both believe violence is wrong and biden won.
Trump supporters havent been allienated we have been "hearing their voice" for 4 years and America didnt want to hear it anymore. 7 milloin more people said we heard enough.

 

[Frankie 1]

So what's your point? We should care about the mechanisms by which safe and effective vaccines work? You prefer being injected with attenuated live virus?

My point should be obvious. Safe and effective? That’s laughable, this biological brew has caused more death/serious side effects than all other vaxx combined. The swine flu vacc affair of 1976 was halted with less than 100 deaths. We have tens of thousands of deaths and millions of life altering side effects that have been reported worldwide!

 

[climbhightree]

Come on, Maybe you should re listen to Trump and other republicans speeches the day of the insurrection. They were pretty clear about that this was about the election being stolen from them. Trump re stated that point in his video after the riot. Saying j6 was about these other things doesnt bode well for yourself and other conservatives. Stop trying to put lipstick on a pig. So you are telling me j6 was a protest to just re enforce well know conservative principals and few people took it too far? Yeah hanging Mike Pence and stop the steal had alot to do with liberty and freedom, capitalism vs socicalism etc. So I guess tomorrow is about protesting the treatment of political prisoners? Or are these people that are being held to account for breaking the law. We both believe violence is wrong and biden won.
Trump supporters havent been allienated we have been "hearing their voice" for 4 years and America didnt want to hear it anymore. 7 milloin more people said we heard enough.

All I'm saying is it is rarely one specific topic that makes some lose control (whether protesting, riot, covid deaths). I believe there was a rally/protest and a riot on January 6th. The riot was wrong and illegal, and for the wrong purpose. The rally, and some of the protests were for other purposes. I believe many got caught up in the excitement (and peer pressure) and switched from one to the other...like blm protest/riots. This in no way makes it right or legal.

I'm pretty sure that there has been no charges of insurrection/treason etc brought on anyone. It is all trespass and similar things....but I may be wrong.

We all done things we are not proud of, either by poor personal decisions or getting peer pressured.

 

[Dan Cobb]

My point should be obvious. Safe and effective? That’s laughable, this biological brew has caused more death/serious side effects than all other vaxx combined. The swine flu vacc affair of 1976 was halted with less than 100 deaths. We have tens of thousands of deaths and millions of life altering side effects that have been reported worldwide!

Do you know of a single death scientifically proven to be a direct result of a covid vaccination? A death that occurs some period of time after a vaccination does not prove cause and effect. My hunch is that the number of deaths occurring in the period after vaccination is probably in line with the number of deaths expected in the same period in the absence of any vaccinations.

Edit: I found a site that shows an average of 8159 total deaths per day (all causes) in the U.S., or 57,113 per week. That's pretty close to what is reported in VAERS. Of course, homicides, traffic fatalities, etc. should not be reported in VAERS. That's somewhat offset by the vaccine not being approved for all ages and higher vaccination rates for the elderly. Determining whether or not the deaths reported in VAERS are statistically significant is a huge undertaking, but a cursory look leads me to suspect they are not statically significant.

 

[climbhightree]

Trump supporters havent been allienated we have been "hearing their voice" for 4 years and America didnt want to hear it anymore. 7 milloin more people said we heard enough.

No different then right before Trump was elected...people were tired of the current way of things.. But what is different is when Trump was elected, the right didn't immediately cancel and silence everyone on the left. Which is happening now...the left canceling and silencing everyone on the right. You can't just all of sudden call almost half the country racist, stupid, etc just because they voted for Trump. Especially when there are people from all degrees of iq, financial status, and races that voted for him.

BTW I don't like Trump as a person, but I did like most of his policies compared to the other option I had. My preference would have been to have another republican candidate. I also like that he wasn't a career politician...feel most of them are almost crooks and speak out on both sides of their mouths depending on the the wind that day. Did Trump say stupid things, yes. Did he lie/stretch the truth, yes (but what politician hasn't). Is he egotistical, yes. You don't have to convince me he was of poor character.

 

[Tom Dunlap]

NOTICE

This conversation isn't moving ahead. Its starting to become deranged and circular.

If the discussion doesn't move forward the thread will be locked.

Time to move on.

 

[climbhightree]

NOTICE

This conversation isn't moving ahead. Its starting to become deranged and circular.

If the discussion doesn't move forward the thread will be locked.

Time to move on.

I actually feel like this is a fairly healthy debate. But I would respect your decision as an admin. I do agree that it is getting circular, but most debates are if neither side is willing to concede anything. Which doesn't mean that it isn't informative.

 

[rico]

All I'm saying is it is rarely one specific topic that makes some lose control (whether protesting, riot, covid deaths). I believe there was a rally/protest and a riot on January 6th. The riot was wrong and illegal, and for the wrong purpose. The rally, and some of the protests were for other purposes. I believe many got caught up in the excitement (and peer pressure) and switched from one to the other...like blm protest/riots. This in no way makes it right or legal.

I'm pretty sure that there has been no charges of insurrection/treason etc brought on anyone. It is all trespass and similar things....but I may be wrong.

We all done things we are not proud of, either by poor personal decisions or getting peer pressured.

Both unvaxxed and completely unable to be truthful about what happened on Jan 6th. Sadly this has become a cliche here in Merica

https://www.forbes.com/sites/nichol...nd-trump-voters-are-near-top/?sh=7e1fa6904947

 

[Dan Cobb]

I'll leave with one last thought. Are the people who oppose all vaccines who get bitten by an erratic wild animal going to skip the rabies vaccinations?

 

[climbhightree]

Both unvaxxed and completely unable to be truthful about what happened on Jan 6th. Sadly this has become a cliche here in Merica

I'd still share a beer with you as a fellow tree guy, even though we don't agree. If we can't debate topics without attacking the other individual and calling them liars, there is no reason to continue the debate. Everyone is entitled to their own beliefs and thoughts...they aren't illegal, that takes an action. Nothing to get angry about. Be safe and continue to heal up!

 

[climbhightree]

I'll leave with one last thought. Are the people who oppose all vaccines who get bitten by an erratic wild animal going to skip the rabies vaccinations?

You missing a key word, that is part of this poll/thread...mandate. I don't have a problem with vaccines, especially tried and true ones that have been out for years/decades. I do have a problem with being forced (mandated) to take one whether my personal doctor thinks it is a good idea for me or not.

 

[rico]

I'd still share a beer with you as a fellow tree guy, even though we don't agree. If we can't debate topics without attacking the other individual and calling them liars, there is no reason to continue the debate. Everyone is entitled to their own beliefs and thoughts...they aren't illegal, that takes an action. Nothing to get angry about. Be safe and continue to heal up!

Liar? Please don’t put words in my mouth. You have been and continue to make excuses for the rioters, and be dishonest about the events of Jan 6th. No more, no less...

Can’t wait to hear your explanation as to why rioters were screaming “hang Mike Pence.. “Kill Mike Pence.” Its all right there in official court documents.

Hell, even Donald had the balls to admit that the rioters wanted what he wanted. To overturn Joe Bidens 2020 election win.

 

[evo]

This isn’t about health and safety anymore... it’s about control and compliance. You comply believing it will end but it never ends because you comply. It’s a vicious circle, a double-bind, lose lose situation that the complying,boot-licking jackasses that collectively parrot “oh that’s crazy-talk,it’s conspiracy theory, Maybe in Australia but it’ll never happen here” have placed us all in. They actually beg for their own enslavement by supporting these idiotic vaccine mandates that have nothing to do with actual science and fail even the most basic cost/benefit , logical , common sense analysis. Example : Whether you are pro/con mandated vaxx Why would you mandate a vaxx that was produced/given 16 months ago for a viral strain that most likely does not even exist today, and whose efficacy is waning according to the very same folk mandating it! Makes absolutely NO sense. They are gonna piss/off the truckers in this country with the bullshit and when they walk people are gonna learn what communism is .... real quick

No one is FORCING anyone to COMPLY. And still mRNA vax’s ARE NOT gene therapy. I know it might be a bit much for you to wrap your brain around.. all I ask if for you to educate yourself before spewing such nonsense. I can give two f’s about changing your mind, as if I ever could…. But just stop with the regurgitation of bullshit terminology!

 

[climbhightree]

Liar? Please don’t put words in my mouth. You have been and continue to make excuses for the rioters, and be dishonest about the events of Jan 6th. No more, no less...

Can’t wait to hear your explanation as to why rioters were screaming “hang Mike Pence.. “Kill Mike Pence.” Its all right there in official court documents.

Hell, even Donald had the balls to admit that the rioters wanted what he wanted. To overturn Joe Bidens 2020 election win.

I'm pretty sure calling someone dishonest, is the same as calling them a liar. I'd have to read all our comments, but I also think you even told me to stop lying (but I could be wrong).

I also never made excuses for the violent rioters. In fact I repeatly said it was wrong and illegal, and they should be prosecuted for it. Not sure what you have been reading into my comments. The only excuse I gave, for the violent rioters, is that the blm violent rioters should be treated the same...which isn't an excuse.

 

[climbhightree]

No one is FORCING anyone to COMPLY.

How is threat of loosing your job, freedom to travel, professional license etc. not forcing you?

 

[Frankie 1]

I'll leave with one last thought. Are the people who oppose all vaccines who get bitten by an erratic wild animal going to skip the rabies vaccinations?

If I were in the field and bitten by a rabid animal I would ABSOLUTELY get treatment ... Rabies is almost a 100% death rate at 99.9% fatal. Contrast that with Covid which is 99%+ survivable for those in my age bracket/health. I’m not opposed to vaccines at all, just do not take kindly to the govt overstepping their bounds with mandates which are basically coercion/blackmail ie no jab/ no job. Mandating medical treatments without informed consent/no liability for death/life altering side effects rubs some folk the wrong way and is a slippery slope to an even more “Hux-Wellian” future.

 

[rico]

I'm pretty sure calling someone dishonest, is the same as calling them a liar. I'd have to read all our comments, but I also think you even told me to stop lying (but I could be wrong).

I also never made excuses for the violent rioters. In fact I repeatly said it was wrong and illegal, and they should be prosecuted for it. Not sure what you have been reading into my comments. The only excuse I gave, for the violent rioters, is that the blm violent rioters should be treated the same...which isn't an excuse.

Never made excuses? I believe you choked the rioters actions up to “getting caught up in the excitement”, and bowing down to “peer pressure”. Hell, I believe you even suggested that perhaps the rioters were vacillating between these 2 emotions. Either way, it sure sounds like some excuse making to me...

 

[JCB]

I'd still share a beer with you as a fellow tree guy, even though we don't agree. If we can't debate topics without attacking the other individual and calling them liars, there is no reason to continue the debate. Everyone is entitled to their own beliefs and thoughts...they aren't illegal, that takes an action. Nothing to get angry about. Be safe and continue to heal up!

Honest, it's not just you: But I don't drink with several folks anymore BECAUSE of their debating styles. That is what any sane person ought to do. At about 10 years old, I was embarrassed when my Mother, in crowded restaurant, stopped a person telling a racist joke at our table. She stopped him like this: "We don't tell those kind of jokes around here." I was dumbfounded, but those emotions soon turned to lifelong pride and the joy of following a real person, struggling in the real world, and knowing right from wrong.

And that is why I can't have that beer, even though my parents and grandparents could have. The difference for them was that family members of both parties could talk politics--and they did it all the time, assertively and constructively. It didn't take great intellect but one needed much common sense. Common Sense: The zeitgeist as seen through the community's combined experiences. Everyone watched the same news casts and argued within a very real world. They would reject the rantings and goals of fledgling dictators and their ilk, for half their family members died fighting guys like that.

Therefore, one cannot compare BLM protests against centuries-old oppression to a violent mob that tries to smash the results of a gold-certified election and re-seat their shining knight (because that's how the game is played now). I watched a documentary last night wherein Texas minority and working-class-white construction workers have historically been prevented from drinking water and taking two 10-minute breaks in a 10-hour day. People die, regularly. But spirited bereaved family members and coworkers had had enough. They organized and won some concessions--just like Black Lives Matter does. BLM includes plenty of White constituents, by the way, folks who recognize and abhor racism. In the end, only Dallas and Houston ALLOWED water and breaks. Racism is everywhere. That is why the overthrow of this government will be so easy: Almost half the people already got the T-shirt. In fact, it nearly happened on January 6th--in our lifetimes! It's our problem: We must grow the truth and leave the chaff.

Stay Well

 

[climbhightree]

Never made excuses? I believe you choked the rioters actions up to “getting caught up in the excitement”, and bowing down to “peer pressure”. Hell, I believe you even suggested that perhaps the rioters were vacillating between these 2 emotions. Either way, it sure sounds like some excuse making to me...

OK. But I don't feel that is necessarily an excuse, when I feel that they should be prosecuted. If a underage kid gets caught drinking at a party, I can understand why he might have did it but that doesn't mean that I think he should be just be let go and that it was nothing. They aren't innocent

 

[climbhightree]

Honest, it's not just you: But I don't drink with several folks anymore BECAUSE of their debating styles. That is what any sane person ought to do. At about 10 years old, I was embarrassed when my Mother, in crowded restaurant, stopped a person telling a racist joke at our table. She stopped him like this: "We don't tell those kind of jokes around here." I was dumbfounded, but those emotions soon turned to lifelong pride and the joy of following a real person, struggling in the real world, and knowing right from wrong.

And that is why I can't have that beer, even though my parents and grandparents could have. The difference for them was that family members of both parties could talk politics--and they did it all the time, assertively. It didn't take great intellect but one needed much common sense. Common Sense: The zeitgeist as seen through the community's combined experiences. Everyone watched the same news casts and argued within a very real world. They would reject the rantings and goals of fledgling dictators and their ilk, for half their family members died fighting guys like that.

Therefore, one cannot compare BLM protests against centuries-old oppression to a violent mob that tries to smash the results of a gold-certified election and re-seat their shining knight (because that's how the game is played now). I watched a documentary last night wherein Texas minority and working-class-white construction workers have historically been prevented from drinking water and taking two 10-minute breaks in a 10-hour day. People die, regularly. But spirited bereaved family members and coworkers had had enough. They organized and won some concessions--just like Black Lives Matter does. BLM has plenty of white, overlooked, underpaid constituents, by the way. In the end, only Dallas and Houston ALLOWED water and breaks. Racism is everywhere. That is why the overthrow of this government will be so easy: Almost half the people already got the T-shirt. In fact, it nearly happened on January 6th--in our lifetimes! It's our problem: We must grow the truth and leave the chaff.

Stay Well

Ummm. I never compared Jan 6th to blm protest. I somewhat compared the Jan 6th rioters (violent/destructive) to the blm rioters (violent/destructive). I've said repeatedly that protest (non-violent) is OK, anywhere any topic. When it becomes violent and destructive, it should be held accountable to an equal, fair, just, non racist standard.