Vaccine Mandate

[owScott]

I don't have a problem with the vaccine, other than it was very quickly developed (which could be good but could also be very bad if short cuts were made). I don't have a problem with private establishments requiring mask or the vaccine, though proof of vaccine is very shady as far as hipaa laws (can I ask if you have aids etc that could infect me?). It is their property and can require what they want (dress attire etc), and then I'll choose whether I want to be a customer of theirs or not.

I do have a problem with it being forced, and required, on me by the government (as an employer or employee) , especially when there are other options that aren't being recognized or addressed by them. If the vaccine is so great and protective, it shouldn't matter whether I have it or not...you are protected...your love one are protected if the chose to get the vaccine. If I die from covid, heart disease, cancer, etc shouldn't make any difference...they all mostly come from decisions I made in my life...they all cost $$$ (which it what health insurance is for). The fact that covid is more contagious then the other I mentioned, doesn't matter if you are vaccinated and it truly works. If it doesn't work we are a F-ed anyways.

Ps - My uncle is a covid death statistic. But his wife never got sick (or my cousins). So yes this has affected someone close to me.

I agree with some of what your saying. Again the "if its not 100% effective its unless" arguement makes no sense to me. My point remains if there is some benefit why not go with it. No protection or if you contract the virus, less severe symptoms and less likehood of death. Well I will take the latter. Its about reduction. This has become a political conversation about freedom not science. We wear a helmet in the tree, is it going to protect us 100%, no but it will reduce the injury if we get hit. Seat belt same thing, motorcycle helmet same thing. No one is saying the vaccine is so great but rather its the best we have. May I ask what are the other options that arent being recognized or addressed. Truely sorry to hear about your uncle, my condolences.

 

[owScott]

Whether contagious or not is irrelevant. IF it is truly about “public health” and the yearly death count of covid and heart disease is similar then why aren’t similar government measures being enacted to reduce heart disease: ie ban cigarettes, alcohol, sugary sodas, greasy fast foods? But but Frankie .... that would be impinging on people’s freedom(s) ....... EXACTLY ... Sad day when 40% support the government over their fellow man. I’ll agree to disagree and move on

Promise

 

[climbhightree]

I agree with some of what your saying. Again the "if its not 100% effective I am against it" arguement makes no sense to me. My point remains if there is some benefit why not go with it. No protection or if you contract the virus, less severe symptoms and less likehood of death. Well I will take the latter. Its about reduction. This has become a political conversation about freedom not science. We wear a helmet in the tree, is it going to protect us 100%, no but it will reduce the injury if we get hit. Seat belt same thing, motorcycle helmet same thing. No one is saying the vaccine is so great but rather its the best we have. May I ask what are the other options that arent being recognized or addressed. Truely sorry to hear about your uncle, my condolences.

As stated I'm not against the vaccine, whether 100% effective or not. I'm against the mandate of it be forced...especially by the federal government and even more so by osha (osha has nothing to do with diseases). I'm against a President going it unilaterally without congress and actual laws being voted on. If mandated by a state, then it is more acceptable (especially if passed by their congress etc).

Why should we be forced to take it, if it isn't effective? If it is effective why should we have to take it to save othersthat have?

Quite a few states don't require helmets on motorcycles. I wear my seat belt because it is safer for me, by choice. Others do not by choice. Personally I font think that should be a law either. But driving is a privilege, not a right. To take advantage of that privilege one of the laws says I have to wear a seat belt or be fined if caught. Seat belt/helmets is something that I put on my body, not in...huge difference. Those would better correlate to masks. As to that correlation, I'd say seatbelts/helmets are way more protective than majority of masks and have less side effects of wearing (dirty, improperly, air quality, number of times used etc).

The biggest other option? Natural immunity from having the strong antibodies, or from previously having covid. And that I'm probably more liking to die in a car accident than from covid, even if I already have Covid currently.

 

[climbhightree]

Promise

A seat belt/helmet is something I wear to protect myself. It does nothing to protect you. Same with the vaccine it protects those who do it, it doesn't protect others from you.

So why should you force me to protect myself, if I choose not to protect myself in that way? I can do many other thing to destroy my body that the government doesn't completely prevent me from.

 

[Frankie 1]

Jonny ... Death is death bro - whether from heart disease, cancer, flu, drowning, suicide, alcoholism,dementia , murder, covid etc etc ... The end result is the same! I used heart disease as an example because it has a similar number of yearly deaths as covid does (roughly 1 in 500) yet we haven’t been constantly bombarded 24/7 by the media about heart disease like we have about covid the past 18months and we most certainly haven’t been subject to any “mandates” while the yearly death totals are similar - they aren’t checking your “heart health status” at the store and telling you, nope sorry bro we can’t sell you those smokes (at least not yet muhahaha) ... Hmm wonder why? Funny how no one is dying of covid at home ... They are all dying in hospital, where they are supposedly being cured. Anyhoo why in certain folks minds is a death from (? , say heart disease) somehow “ less worthy” and doesn’t seem to warrant the same response as a death from covid? After all, its about public health right? I’m not drinking the koolaid and it appear that the majority in this thread feel the same

 

[climbhightree]

Promise

Do you smoke cigs? Or do any drugs, including mj? (rhetorical question)

If you do or don't, should they be legal? Why? Is it because people should have the right to put something in their body if they want, even if it causes harm and can affect other if done to extremes. Therefore why can't I choose not to put a vaccine in me, if you are protected. Why can't I take the risk of getting covid, like cancer from smoking or frying brain cells.

Is it because they deserve that right to look for alternatives "medicine" outside of the traditional medicines? So why can I trust natural antibodies, or from other treatments that have been proven to help outside of the vaccine?

 

[Frankie 1]

A seat belt/helmet is something I wear to protect myself. It does nothing to protect you. Same with the vaccine it protects those who do it, it doesn't protect others from you.

So why should you force me to protect myself, if I choose not to protect myself in that way? I can do many other thing to destroy my body that the government doesn't completely prevent me from.

Exactly- excellent logic ! This isn’t about politics or science ... It’s about the Covidian Cult that’s been brainwashed by 18months of propaganda beaten 24/7 into their soft heads! Once indoctrinated into the cult the member loses critical thinking skills because of the constant gaslighting, manipulation and outright lying / moving the goalposts- Its as if their mind has been short circuited and they will do anything to avoid the mental anguish(cognitive dissonance) that they feel when confronted with the truth. Jim Jones , Charlie Manson , Bolsheviks 1917, Nazi Germany etc all employed these tactics and they are most certainly being employed during the cervesza -bug. It seems anyone with an opposing scientific viewpoint (Nobel prize winning PhD’s, World-class scientists/virologists) or statements which conflict with “the official narrative” are silenced. Why ? In regard to the mandate, the administration is attempting to overstep it’s bounds by using OSHA to enforce it. HUGE difference between wearing ppe for 8 hrs and then going home and having a biological concoction Injected into you via no/jab no job coercion/blackmail that stays with you 24/7/365 !

 

[Tom Dunlap]

it appear that the majority in this thread feel the same

Fact check: 44 to 31% in favor of vaxxing in this thread. Since the poll went up its been trending that way all along.

You're lying.

 

[rico]

Funny how no one is dying of covid at home ...

Pure rubbish-

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/covid-patients-dying-at-home-ontario-coroner-1.6000327

https://www.newswise.com/coronaviru...hcare-contribute-to-covid-s-hidden-death-toll

https://www.factcheck.org/2020/09/nearly-10000-covid-19-victims-died-at-home/

https://www.bmj.com/content/373/bmj.n1437

https://www.kpbs.org/news/2020/sep/03/home-deaths-climb-covid-19-victims-die/

 

[climbhightree]

Fact check: 44 to 31% in favor of vaxxing in this thread. Since the poll went up its been trending that way all along.

You're lying.

Ummm how do you figure? If someone is against all vaccine mandates they would also be against covid 19 vaccines. So it is 44% for covid vaccine mandates versus 62% against (add the last two poll options togther)

Edit: poll number percentages have changed since I posted this. But you still have to add the last 2 together

 

[rico]

I'm against a President going it unilaterally without congress and actual laws being voted on. If mandated by a state, then it is more acceptable (especially if passed by their congress etc).

So your against the president mandating it, but you would be ok with the chief executive of your state mandated it? Makes perfect sense bro....

 

[Frankie 1]

Fact check: 44 to 31% in favor of vaxxing in this thread. Since the poll went up its been trending that way all along.

You're lying. Huh? ... Not according to the survey I’m reading ... 44.1% approve , 2.9% approve with option for weekly testing. That’s 47% ... 20.6% disapprove of c-19 mandates and 32.4% disapprove of ALL vaccine mandates. So 47% approve ; 53% disapprove so far - I’m not seeing 31% Tom

 

[climbhightree]

So your against the president mandating it, but you would be ok with it if your governor mandated it? Makes perfect sense bro....

In general, yes. Because that is how America's constitution is setup power wise.

Not really just the governor himself. He has the power constitutional to do it for the short term under emergencies. But he shouldn't be able to do it unending, or constantly renewing the emergency without congress.

 

[rico]

In general, yes. Because that is how America's constitution is setup power wise.

Not really just the governor himself. He has the power constitutional to do it for the short term under emergencies. But he shouldn't be able to do it unending, or constantly renewing the emergency without congress.

Funny you should mention the constitution, because Article 2 of the Constitution gives the president broad executive and enforcement authority to use his or her discretion to determine how to enforce the law or to otherwise manage the resources and staff of the executive branch.

 

[climbhightree]

Funny you should mention the constitution, because Article 2 of the Constitution gives the president broad executive and enforcement authority to use his or her discretion to determine how to enforce the law or to otherwise manage the resources and staff of the executive branch.

"enforce the law" not make the law. But then again a mandate isn't a law, so one should have the right not to do it.

All I'm saying is that there is separation of power between president, congress, senate , Supreme Court...on both the federal and state levels. All sides have been crossing the lines more and more.

There is also separation of responsibility between the federal and state powers...which are also getting crossed.

Not going to debate specifics, cause quite frankly I don't feel like it. I'm not trying to change your opinion, just saying mine.

 

[Frankie 1]

In general, yes. Because that is how America's constitution is setup power wise.

Not really just the governor himself. He has the power constitutional to do it for the short term under emergencies. But he shouldn't be able to do it unending, or constantly renewing the emergency without congress.

NY state allows a state of emergency to be declared (including health crises ) for a maximum of 60days. Other states have similar wording but may vary in the duration of time. The state of emergency that began on March 7 2020 ended June 24th 2021 or well over 450days!!! Similar outcomes occurred in other states like Gretchen Whitmer - run Michigan. Totally unconstitutional and definitely illegal but more importantly the template is set now for what is to follow. Unfortunately the residents of NY collectively did nothing but hey ... weed is now legal right ?

 

[climbhightree]

NY state allows a state of emergency to be declared (including health crises ) for a maximum of 60days. Other states have similar wording but may vary in the duration of time. The state of emergency that began on March 7 2020 ended June 24th 2021 or well over 450days!!! Similar outcomes occurred in other states like Gretchen Whitmer - run Michigan. Totally unconstitutional and definitely illegal but more importantly the template is set now for what is to follow. Unfortunately the residents of NY collectively did nothing but hey ... weed is now legal right ?

PA is around the same 60 or 90 days. But our governor could renewal it as often as he wanted...till recently.

 

[Frankie 1]

Funny you should mention the constitution, because Article 2 of the Constitution gives the president broad executive and enforcement authority to use his or her discretion to determine how to enforce the law or to otherwise manage the resources and staff of the executive branch.

Sleepy Joe ain’t got nothin to say about it! The sheriff of my county has more power (within his county) than the governor. In fact the sheriff could under certain circumstances deputize certain members of the community (myself included) and give me full power to arrest ,detain and jail certain “undesirables”. Cornpop Joe has NO jurisdiction in my county. Respectfully, Before you decide to play barracks-room lawyer make sure you know wtf you’re talking about

 

[Frankie 1]

PA is around the same 60 or 90 days. But our governor could renewal it as often as he wanted...till recently.

I did read about that and that’s great for the commonwealth of PA. Unfortunately here in NY no such measure was enacted to the best of my knowledge. I’m actually lookin at moving to PA when I retire ... NY is f’d

 

[rico]

Sleepy Joe ain’t got nothin to say about it! The sheriff of my county has more power (within his county) than the governor. In fact the sheriff could under certain circumstances deputize certain members of the community (myself included) and give me full power to arrest ,detain and jail certain “undesirables”. Cornpop Joe has NO jurisdiction in my county. Respectfully, Before you decide to play barracks-room lawyer make sure you know wtf you’re talking about

Could you imagine someone suggesting that "no one is dying from covid at home", or suggesting that Article II of the Constitution doesn't vest the President with the power of executive order....Now that would be someone who doesn't know WTF they are taking about..