used a few ropes on this one

Like I said, I agree the fence looks like it could have been removed prior to cutting. Thing is, I'll bet the homeowner is still super happy with the result. In his mind he saved $4000 compared to the other tree company's quote (and I doubt any others were fighting over it), the only damage is a cheap and easily fixed fence and his neighbor can breathe a sigh of relief and probably thinks all involved are heroes. Winners all around.
 
We dismantled the fence after the first piece got hit... so only one section needed to be replaced... If I had thought to remove the entire fence before that cut I would have.. had other things on my mind..

I was not going to rigg off the tree (even though IMO it could have been done safely). I just wouldn't ask a climber to do that.... Only other tree to rig off was the beach, which could have gotten all beat up instead of one section of fence.... It just wasn't worth the trouble... better to let the bombs fall... remember it wasn;t just a 4K difference in price ..,.. the neighbor's driveway could have been damaged by the crane... Even without the 4K would the homeowner rather replace one section of fence or sign a waiver on the drive???

I did change the final configuration of the GRCS to run the line through the block.. Just didn't get it on camera..

It was a stressful job that went smooth... The plan worked and everyone stayed safe.... I was glad that the tree stood up so easily....
 
I also can't for the life of me figure out why no one took the time to put a few chains or straps on the first 30 feet of the trunk. A barber chair or trunk failure looked to be a legit concern.

No chance of BBC once the lift started...... By the time anyone got near the tree, it was almost straight and the crack had closed ... strapping the tree would have been more of a feel good exercise rather than actually do any good...
 
We dismantled the fence after the first piece got hit... so only one section needed to be replaced... If I had thought to remove the entire fence before that cut I would have..
So what your saying is that you had prior approval to destroy the fence and it was written into the job proposal, but upon hitting the fence you suddenly decided to take the time to dismantle the rest of the fence because you didnt want to smash it. Does this sound nonsensical to anyone but me?

Did you force your climber to come down, or did you make him wait in that dangerous tree while you dismantled the fence.
 
No chance of BBC once the lift started...... By the time anyone got near the tree, it was almost straight and the crack had closed ... strapping the tree would have been more of a feel good exercise rather than actually do any good...
The crack may have closed but you do realized it it was still there Daniel? All you did was change the direction of the forces. As someone who has done his fair share of large lightning strike Pines with cracks from the stump to 150 ft up, I can assure you that chaining/strapping isnt just a feel good exercise, but can truly be the difference between life and death.
 
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Wow, $10,000 crane removal. $6000 to pile it up and leave that's a crazy price. I totally get the situation. Seems that the climber made $300 for the business and Daniel made $5700 how can you justify that. In 30 years of tree work that's the highest profit margin I have heard of. Customer got robbed. The fence is not relevant, except for pride. But for $6000 I would have took it down in dinner plate size cuts. Did 1 similar last fall in the dark with a head lamp $1500. If you think the tree is that dangerous don't do the tree, how did you determine that price, just that it sounded better than $10,000 which sounds like a price that someone gave that they were over their heads and don't know what they are looking at or both. I know some will say you must charge for the risk factor, I get that, but $6000 seems like you are almost counting on dying.
 
Utte
exactly... he waited.. ironically... I think that none of the other sections would have been damaged, if we had left them..
Utter nonsense. Changing story lines about smashed shit, and now the very real possibly of a barber chair has miraculously healed itself. I’m pretty sure I have seen this movie before.
 
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Wow, $10,000 crane removal. $6000 to pile it up and leave that's a crazy price. I totally get the situation. Seems that the climber made $300 for the business and Daniel made $5700 how can you justify that. In 30 years of tree work that's the highest profit margin I have heard of. Customer got robbed. The fence is not relevant, except for pride. But for $6000 I would have took it down in dinner plate size cuts. Did 1 similar last fall in the dark with a head lamp $1500. If you think the tree is that dangerous don't do the tree, how did you determine that price, just that it sounded better than $10,000 which sounds like a price that someone gave that they were over their heads and don't know what they are looking at or both. I know some will say you must charge for the risk factor, I get that, but $6000 seems like you are almost counting on dying.

Counting on going back with a crane when the grcs + truck + ma system doesn't provide enough force. Easily could have been a 6k job, imo. But it wasn't. If you charge 6k and it ends up being 8k you don't go demand 2 extra k. Daniel had a contract and fulfilled it.
 
Wow, $10,000 crane removal. $6000 to pile it up and leave that's a crazy price. I totally get the situation. Seems that the climber made $300 for the business and Daniel made $5700 how can you justify that. In 30 years of tree work that's the highest profit margin I have heard of. Customer got robbed. The fence is not relevant, except for pride. But for $6000 I would have took it down in dinner plate size cuts. Did 1 similar last fall in the dark with a head lamp $1500. If you think the tree is that dangerous don't do the tree, how did you determine that price, just that it sounded better than $10,000 which sounds like a price that someone gave that they were over their heads and don't know what they are looking at or both. I know some will say you must charge for the risk factor, I get that, but $6000 seems like you are almost counting on dying.
Clearly you and I are working in the wrong market place owScott. I have only seen 2 trees in my life that came remotely close to $1O,OOO. One was an old growth Fir (8 ft DBH & 235-240ft) and the other was an old growth Red ( little over 10ft DBH). Both were big filthy backleaners, hanging over high $ homes.

I just don’t see the risk factor to justify such a high price for this tulip. Plenty of nearby trees for a climber to tie in to, and apparently the split trunk was of so little concern that they didn’t even bother strapping it up. We aren’t reinventing the wheel here folks. Stand her up a little, guy line her back, and have at it.

Agreed that the fence was a matter of pride and professionalism. I also take pride in knowing that at the end of the day I have truly earned my money, and that my clients have gotten some serious bang for their buck.
 
Wow, $10,000 crane removal. $6000 to pile it up and leave that's a crazy price. I totally get the situation. Seems that the climber made $300 for the business and Daniel made $5700 how can you justify that. In 30 years of tree work that's the highest profit margin I have heard of. Customer got robbed. The fence is not relevant, except for pride. But for $6000 I would have took it down in dinner plate size cuts. Did 1 similar last fall in the dark with a head lamp $1500. If you think the tree is that dangerous don't do the tree, how did you determine that price, just that it sounded better than $10,000 which sounds like a price that someone gave that they were over their heads and don't know what they are looking at or both. I know some will say you must charge for the risk factor, I get that, but $6000 seems like you are almost counting on dying.

Strange. Seems we are constantly complaining that we (as an industry) aren't valued enough, aren't paid enough, aren't seen as professionals, or can't hope to compete with the hacks/lowballers. Then when we see a competent, knowledgeable guy charging and getting what he's worth we complain about that.

I think we tend to forget that what we do is not easy and certainly not something just anyone can do. And too many of us price jobs in terms of what it's worth to us rather than what it's worth to them. A lot of our customers make more before lunch on Monday than we will all week. They don't blink about the price if they think you are worth it. Daniel knows what he's worth.
 
Clearly you and I are working in the wrong market place owScott. I have only seen 2 trees in my life that came remotely close to $1O,OOO. One was an old growth Fir (8 ft DBH & 235-240ft) and the other was an old growth Red ( little over 10ft DBH). Both were big filthy backleaners, hanging over high $ homes.

I just don’t see the risk factor to justify such a high price for this tulip. Plenty of nearby trees for a climber to tie in to, and apparently the split trunk was of so little concern that they didn’t even bother strapping it up. We aren’t reinventing the wheel here folks. Stand her up a little, guy line her back, and have at it.

Agreed that the fence was a matter of pride and professionalism. I also take pride in knowing that at the end of the day I have truly earned my money, and that my clients have gotten some serious bang for their buck.

We get large-tree-on-house jobs in the +/- 10k range infrequently and regularly over here. By the time they're done, I'm always glad I charged that much. Usually, I've played bank for a month, I've had to decrease the estimate by itemizing out the stump grinding/trunk that's not actually on the house/wood hauling past $500/etc., I've had the crane in of course, I've tarped a very large section of roof, I've repeatedly counselled the client to slow down and wait for electrical disconnect even though rain is pouring into the house, etc... Jobs are 10k sometimes, here.
 
Strange. Seems we are constantly complaining that we (as an industry) aren't valued enough, aren't paid enough, aren't seen as professionals, or can't hope to compete with the hacks/lowballers. Then when we see a competent, knowledgeable guy charging and getting what he's worth we complain about that.

I think we tend to forget that what we do is not easy and certainly not something just anyone can do. And too many of us price jobs in terms of what it's worth to us rather than what it's worth to them. A lot of our customers make more before lunch on Monday than we will all week. They don't blink about the price if they think you are worth it. Daniel knows what he's worth.

Some valid points Buck, but if your charging top $ you probably shouldn't be destroying your clients stuff. We are professionals after all, so its best if we leave the smashed shit to the lowballers and hacks.

Expecting your fence to remain intact after paying $6000 for a tree of that size and difficulty doesn't seem unreasonable?

Hoping that your swing set will still be in one piece after paying $2000 for a quick little top and drop isn't asking for too much. Is it?
 
We get large-tree-on-house jobs in the +/- 10k range infrequently and regularly over here. By the time they're done, I'm always glad I charged that much. Usually, I've played bank for a month, I've had to decrease the estimate by itemizing out the stump grinding/trunk that's not actually on the house/wood hauling past $500/etc., I've had the crane in of course, I've tarped a very large section of roof, I've repeatedly counselled the client to slow down and wait for electrical disconnect even though rain is pouring into the house, etc... Jobs are 10k sometimes, here.
A tree on/through a house is a completely different scenario, and in the end a high price tag is usually justified.
A 3-6 hour tulip tree with no cleanup and a smashed fence for $6000. I for one would never feel comfortable charging my clients that kind of money for that kind of service.
 
Strange. Seems we are constantly complaining that we (as an industry) aren't valued enough, aren't paid enough, aren't seen as professionals, or can't hope to compete with the hacks/lowballers. Then when we see a competent, knowledgeable guy charging and getting what he's worth we complain about that.

I think we tend to forget that what we do is not easy and certainly not something just anyone can do. And too many of us price jobs in terms of what it's worth to us rather than what it's worth to them. A lot of our customers make more before lunch on Monday than we will all week. They don't blink about the price if they think you are worth it. Daniel knows what he's worth.
I am not one of those people complaining about being under paid and have never stated that here or anywhere. I do very well for myself and am very grateful for that. Assuming he was there for 8 hours I guess he is worth $700 an hour. Honestly do you think that was worth $6000. That seems a bit high. I price jobs based on what its worth not how much money the customer has or thinks the jobs worth. I am the professional I should know what jobs are worth. That was not $6000 worth of work I don't care what the client thought. I get what you are saying about people complaining about not getting paid what they are worth and its true, usually by greedy business owners. It seems that's how the climber in this discussion may feel. I commend Daniel for doing the job directly and the right way, I just feel $6000 is taking advantage of the customer being in a perceived bad situation.
 
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That was interesting.

The main pull line running through the GRCS was up through a crotch and tied to the base of the tree?

Doesn't that cause a large amount of the pulling force to be transmitted down the tree as a compression force?

If it were tied high up on the tree I think it would have required less force to lift the tree and reduced the force on the ropes.

Am I wrong?

Anyway Daniel managed it. Good job!
 
Clearly you and I are working in the wrong market place owScott. I have only seen 2 trees in my life that came remotely close to $1O,OOO. One was an old growth Fir (8 ft DBH & 235-240ft) and the other was an old growth Red ( little over 10ft DBH). Both were big filthy backleaners, hanging over high $ homes.

I just don’t see the risk factor to justify such a high price for this tulip. Plenty of nearby trees for a climber to tie in to, and apparently the split trunk was of so little concern that they didn’t even bother strapping it up. We aren’t reinventing the wheel here folks. Stand her up a little, guy line her back, and have at it.

Agreed that the fence was a matter of pride and professionalism. I also take pride in knowing that at the end of the day I have truly earned my money, and that my clients have gotten some serious bang for their buck.
Rico, I am originally from the western slope of Cali near Placerville where the trees are big and there is reasonable money. I come from 25 years plus of big tree wrecking and I agree that was not a big deal. Maybe a 6 out of 10 on the gnarly scale. Majority of the danger was decided by the time they stood it up, especially because the climber could tie into another tree. Take a tree completely detached at the base, not stood up or supported, no other tree to tie into, maybe no bark dead, in the wind , and what the hell at night. Still not $6000. Done them tied into the tree the snag is in lowering pieces off that tree. The crane video I just posted wasn't $10,000. How Daniel handled the tree was fine, I just think he through a crazy price at the customer because they were worried and they went for it, I think that lacks integrity. Don't get me wrong, I do this for money and do well for myself but that was worth about $2000 tops.
 
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We get large-tree-on-house jobs in the +/- 10k range infrequently and regularly over here. By the time they're done, I'm always glad I charged that much. Usually, I've played bank for a month, I've had to decrease the estimate by itemizing out the stump grinding/trunk that's not actually on the house/wood hauling past $500/etc., I've had the crane in of course, I've tarped a very large section of roof, I've repeatedly counselled the client to slow down and wait for electrical disconnect even though rain is pouring into the house, etc... Jobs are 10k sometimes, here.
Colb, I am curious when you get a clean up for $10,000ish, which I don't doubt is that cut and leave or is that haul everything? I have never heard of a tree job in the $6000-$10,000 range that was1 tree cut and leave no clean up.
 
Assuming he was there for 8 hours I guess he is worth $700 an hour. That seems a bit high. I just feel $6000 is taking advantage of the customer being in a perceived bad situation.

I guess I'm still looking at the risk factor. It's not like he was there for 8 hours pruning Dogwoods. $6000 may seem steep in hindsight, but that's because it all worked out. What if a guy line had snapped and the tree slammed into the neighbor's house? What if the tree shifted and threw the climber off balance and he cut himself? Etc., etc. Granted, $6000 doesn't cover those scenarios, but it's the price of entry. $6000 is the price at which Daniel felt the risk was worth the reward. And yes, I know he wasn't the one in the tree but he has been in the past.

Maybe I just don't see the problem. If he threw out $15,000 and the customer felt that was reasonable, then that's that. Again, we all know what the job is worth to us, but sometimes you gotta factor in what it's worth to the customer to have someone they trust onsite to alleviate their issue. Customers usually factor in more than price when choosing service providers.

You say above "that was worth about $2000 tops". Clearly not. We now know it was worth at least $6,000. Don't get me wrong, I know what you mean. But maybe we're worth more than we think sometimes.
 

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