- Location
- Waterbury
The crane co will not make it right or even explain to customer it was their fault so they lost my business and a couple other tree companies that I'm friends with won't use them ever again. Very unprofessional company
Unpaying customers
- Thread starter Norsetreeman
- Start date
southsoundtree
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Olympia, WA
IF you didn't quote the two as stand-alone prices, but itemized the two, and put one final price, I'd say you're on for the whole job, whole price, unless the customer wants to leave the second one, then its down to mutual-decision.
Maybe the customer has a price for just removing one tree, and deducted that from your total, so that he is paying the originally agreed to price for two crane-assisted removals.
I haven't gotten a clear understanding of either the Homeowner's rationale, nor the customer's.
I had a nut job lady with a flat-bid price on a removal, for which I considered a crane. Instead I roped it down, successfully, and moved everything with my mini-loader. No impact, as the work area was a dog-pen and gravel.
She added pruning.
Then she said that since I didn't need the crane, which I said would maybe cost $800, she took that off the top. Written, but unsigned contract. I lost out. Lesson learned. Nutty lady.
Start using GetJobber.com, use me as your referral, we will each get a free month, after a few paid months. Yearly is cheaper. One free trial-month.
Maybe the customer has a price for just removing one tree, and deducted that from your total, so that he is paying the originally agreed to price for two crane-assisted removals.
I haven't gotten a clear understanding of either the Homeowner's rationale, nor the customer's.
I had a nut job lady with a flat-bid price on a removal, for which I considered a crane. Instead I roped it down, successfully, and moved everything with my mini-loader. No impact, as the work area was a dog-pen and gravel.
She added pruning.
Then she said that since I didn't need the crane, which I said would maybe cost $800, she took that off the top. Written, but unsigned contract. I lost out. Lesson learned. Nutty lady.
Start using GetJobber.com, use me as your referral, we will each get a free month, after a few paid months. Yearly is cheaper. One free trial-month.
- Location
- Waterbury
Yeah I love when they start coming up with their own prices the 3600 hundred I asked for covered the one tree we did I had separate prices written on contract to help them understand pricing but they automatically wanna just cut bill in half when that's not how it's priced I did the more expensive bigger oak. But then they get all huffy and puffy and wanna just pay me enough to cover crane. I'm thinking why are you paying the people who screwed up estimate for me but hey there's but jobs everywhere and from now on I will write my work orders out better and come covered with a disclaimer to prevent this happening again. You live and you learn it just sucks when you get the shit end of a stick. I'm gonna keep on working and not let this ruin my day.
southsoundtree
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Olympia, WA
Did the customer hire their own crane company for you to work with, or did you subcontract the crane company?
How much will it cost for the other tree, at market rate?
I'M NO LAWYER.
Bonding prevents this problem. The customer says you didn't fulfill the contract, and the bonding company pays another company to complete the contract, then chases you for the money, as I understand it.
If I bid Tree A $1200
and Tree B $800,
Bid total $2000, payable upon completion or Net 10, or 30 or whatever...
and only do Tree A,
I'm not entitled to being paid, and I'm causing my customer a headache.
They call in my bond.
They hire ABC tree to remove tree B for $2500.
Bonding company pays $2500.
Bonding company chases me for $2500, after I've paid expenses for tree A, and I'm only entitled to, probably $2000.
I'M NO LAWYER.
Never had to deal with a bond issue, I just pay the $120/ year, like my Insurance that has no claims.
Cost of biz.
I had a salesperson bid a $5K job for $2K. Someone else did it for less, thankfully. They lost their ass, or the impact-parameters changed, but I saw the landscaping after, and I think they got bent-over the barrel on that job.
You are responsible for what you contract, or an employee contracts (or does).
How much will it cost for the other tree, at market rate?
I'M NO LAWYER.
Bonding prevents this problem. The customer says you didn't fulfill the contract, and the bonding company pays another company to complete the contract, then chases you for the money, as I understand it.
If I bid Tree A $1200
and Tree B $800,
Bid total $2000, payable upon completion or Net 10, or 30 or whatever...
and only do Tree A,
I'm not entitled to being paid, and I'm causing my customer a headache.
They call in my bond.
They hire ABC tree to remove tree B for $2500.
Bonding company pays $2500.
Bonding company chases me for $2500, after I've paid expenses for tree A, and I'm only entitled to, probably $2000.
I'M NO LAWYER.
Never had to deal with a bond issue, I just pay the $120/ year, like my Insurance that has no claims.
Cost of biz.
I had a salesperson bid a $5K job for $2K. Someone else did it for less, thankfully. They lost their ass, or the impact-parameters changed, but I saw the landscaping after, and I think they got bent-over the barrel on that job.
You are responsible for what you contract, or an employee contracts (or does).
- Location
- Waterbury
This is the part of the business I don't like. I like to just get in there get job done get paid so I'm just hoping the customer will pay what is asked for the work completed and since I can't get crane company to come back for a lower price and fix their screw up or customer decides to pay what they want for a bigger crane. I could rope it down but they aren't comfortable with that they want it done by crane which I can't blame them
I don't call it an estimate I call it a proposal. That always sounded incorrect to me. Words do matter. I assure you most people think when you give them an" estimate" that's the final price. A contract with a deposit implies a final price. If there may be an fluctuation in the price it will be stated in the contract.
- Location
- Waterbury
Your right one word can change the whole meaning I need to think about that from now on.
As the company owner we make the most money. If you don't want these issues be an employee, simple. Being the owner isn't for everyone. I would guess most of the GOOD advise here is coming from experienced business owners.
- Location
- Waterbury
I agree and I'd rather stay the owner I know it comes with the ups an downs all we can do is keep working and moving forward.
not their responsibility to talk to the customer. You are their customer. Not saying they are right here, they aren't, but it is between you and the customer and you and the crane company. There is no crane company to customer relationship here.
Yes and in the end you will win. Its a learning experience like a bad cut and getting hit.
We call it a price quote. Never had a signed contract in 4 years, always gotten paid. Told one lady with a year old quote that it was no longer valid, which it says on the quote but she was super pissed anyways. She wrote a nasty review but luckily it was on a random platform no one uses. Once a guy was being a dick about moving a trailer that was in our way and telling us to just park across the street, he was throwing a fit so we told him to find someone else to help him and we left. I am okay with operating in a world without signed contracts. Only hired subs a few times early on now we only take jobs we can 100% in house, stay plenty busy and it's nice and simple. No complaints.
- Location
- Waterbury
Totally agree... Makes it that they fucked me over as a customer and lost business forever I know losing one company ain't much to them but it's all I can do
This happened this week. We did a job with 3 large removals, fair amount of money. I wasn't on the job and the customer wanted to add removing some lilac shrubs along a chain link fence. A guy who works for me who I occasionally have do proposals added it to the work invoice. No problem that's what I wanted. He wrote remove shrubs and grind stumps. Problem was they were wrapped in the fence. The only way to grind the whole stump would be to remove the fence. I spoke with the customer and explained we would have to remove and put the fence back up which was more work. The customer said the price quoted was to remove and grind the stumps entirely assuming taking down the fence was part of it. Nothing mentioned about labor to remove and put the fence back. He was right. My guy made a mistake by overlooking the fence. I will be paying for the labor to deal with 50ft of chain link. Not the end of the world just an example.
I do home improvement work not much tree-work but this may put me in an ideal position to address the issue.
If never go back on a contract once work is started. If I bid the job I feel its my responsibility to do the work as stated for the price bid.
I feel your pain on this as it was the crane operators mistake not yours that is causing the problem, that said I assume you are the one who negotiated the price with the homeowner? If so then IMHO its up to you to fulfill your obligation to the customer and its also the crane operators duty to fulfill his obligation to you.
Keep in mind to a homeowner this is a huge expense and likely the initial figure was more than he/she was expecting.
Sorry to express this opinion, as I feel your pain on this one but IMO the bad will and word of mouth generated by changing prices on a job this size could far outweigh the loss of time and money to complete the job at the original bid.
If never go back on a contract once work is started. If I bid the job I feel its my responsibility to do the work as stated for the price bid.
I feel your pain on this as it was the crane operators mistake not yours that is causing the problem, that said I assume you are the one who negotiated the price with the homeowner? If so then IMHO its up to you to fulfill your obligation to the customer and its also the crane operators duty to fulfill his obligation to you.
Keep in mind to a homeowner this is a huge expense and likely the initial figure was more than he/she was expecting.
Sorry to express this opinion, as I feel your pain on this one but IMO the bad will and word of mouth generated by changing prices on a job this size could far outweigh the loss of time and money to complete the job at the original bid.
PS, My dumb ass had a neighbor ask how much I would charge to remove two trees that leaned over his fence. I asked how big they were and he said about 8" across, so I told him I would do the job for 250 dollars.
The smaller of the two trees was about 12" the one in the picture is about 26" lost my ass on this job. But I have since done a front light and some plumbing work for the same guy.
The smaller of the two trees was about 12" the one in the picture is about 26" lost my ass on this job. But I have since done a front light and some plumbing work for the same guy.
evo
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- My Island, WA
So this conversation is starting to touch down on something I’ve been pondering for a while. Does it come down to the language used? And if so what are the legal definitions?
Bid?
Quote?
Estimate?
Proposal?
To me personally when I hear these words my first instinct is that a bid or quote is a fixed price. While a estimate or proposal allows for some wiggle room for adjustments from both parties.
Tree work is a different animal, however home builders often go over budget or time. Auto mechanic do as well. Some give options for quality of parts, some just slap the cheap part in and charge for the more expensive part. Plumbers fixing a leak may run into greater issues and then charge more.
How is tree work different, and what is the determining lines in the language?
Bid?
Quote?
Estimate?
Proposal?
To me personally when I hear these words my first instinct is that a bid or quote is a fixed price. While a estimate or proposal allows for some wiggle room for adjustments from both parties.
Tree work is a different animal, however home builders often go over budget or time. Auto mechanic do as well. Some give options for quality of parts, some just slap the cheap part in and charge for the more expensive part. Plumbers fixing a leak may run into greater issues and then charge more.
How is tree work different, and what is the determining lines in the language?
climbhightree
Branched out member
- Location
- Lebanon, Pa USA
A few years ago we switched from estimates to proposal, mostly to clarify that the price won't change (a contracted price). Along with that we removed the price per hour and the amount of time we expect the job to take (on their copy). We basically decided we didn't want to be washy on the price...they can take it or leave it. Price won't change even if we spend a whole extra day there, if I miss bid it. Now hidden concrete or something like that is different. It has worked well for us.
In the past my customers were reading the estimates as a firm bid anyways.
Construction Terms - Construction Communication | The Jobsite
Learn why the construction terms, estimate, quote, bid, and proposal, are different and how to use them properly to keep your job site communication clear.
jobsite.procore.com
How to Bid Plumbing Jobs: The Complete Guide | FIeldPulse
Everything you need to know about how to bid plumbing jobs, from complicated government bids to simple verbal estimates.
www.fieldpulse.com
Understanding Estimates, Bids, Quotes & Proposals
Knowing when to send an estimate, quote, bid, or proposal could make all the difference when it comes to winning work and running your business.
quickbooks.intuit.com
Proposal to me means this what I am going to do, no fluctuation. Quote and bid mean the same. Estimate seems to imply there could be some fluctuation in price. More important than the word you choose is what is stated in the contract. If you don't state there can be some uncertainty then what the contract states stands. Communication is key, if you overlook a detail that's on you.
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