Trump allowed a gun sale Obama wouldn't

I don't believe the blame can be put on society either. I grew up watching Nightmare on Elm St. and all the other popular horror movies. Never made me a slasher. The biggest problem with society and parenting is they don't hold these kids accountable and there's always an excuse. This younger generation has been so desensitized. Everybody wakes up looking for a reason to protest and be pissed off. I don't get it. A murderous animal is turned into a political issue. Total bulls***!





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Not a societal problem? Not a gun problem? Really? Who or what is to blame for all the slaughter?
Gun violence and gun control are absolutely a political issue. Just like many of the issues facing America our politicians on both sides of the isle are both unwilling and incapable of solving our gun violence troubles. A large majority of Americans are in favor of more gun control, but our politicians are serving their own interests (money) and not their constituents. These “desensitized” youngsters have had enough and are demanding action. These kids are gonna be of voting age soon and I believe we will see some much needed changes to our gun laws in the next decade.
 
I don't believe the blame can be put on society either. I grew up watching Nightmare on Elm St. and all the other popular horror movies. Never made me a slasher. The biggest problem with society and parenting is they don't hold these kids accountable and there's always an excuse. This younger generation has been so desensitized. Everybody wakes up looking for a reason to protest and be pissed off. I don't get it. A murderous animal is turned into a political issue. Total bulls***!

Where exactly does the blame lay then? I think you're saying no one but the individual can be blamed, am I right? How does a person become a "murderous animal"? Could it perhaps be family influence and greater societal influences like the movies or the internet? Are some people just fundamentally flawed? I think that might be the case for a very, very small minority. The rest are fucked up by other people, all the nasty shit that they see, hear and have done to them in their lives.

You say Nightmare on Elm St. didn't turn you into Freddy but what was the rest of your life like? Something or someone prepared you to deal with Elm St., to digest it and understand it as a work of fiction. Flash forward 30 years or so.....The youth are positively saturated with violent, sexual, materialistic imagery, it is nearly impossible to escape or avoid. This isn't rent a cassette tape movie time, this is real life stuff. A nearly endless series of real world atrocities, well covered by the media, any depraved act you can imagine recorded on cheap cameras the world over and spread on the internet. Of course they're fucking desensitized! Fact is fiction and fiction is fact. Who's to blame for that?

The idea that the classic American nuclear family, if families like America were still great or could be great again, could prevent these kinds of incidents is a stretch. I believe it's wishful thinking and lusting after an ideal that probably would be ill suited to handle these wild times. I don't remember the Leave it to Beaver episode where they cover torture porn or the Lassie episode where the dog fetches the sheriff to stop the school shooting. Even good well meaning people sometimes fail to raise goods kids, it is impossible to control and manage everything they will exposed to and influenced by.

Now throw in the fact that these confused kids can go out and by the weaponry they see their favorite movie star, or youtube star, using to kick ass and right wrongs. At a time in their lives where they don't know their own ass from a hole in the ground. Even you older guys have lost your grip, people your age are not any better equipped to handle the carnival of carnage we've all been exposed to in the last couple of decades. The mid life crisis has been described as a momentary attempt to recapture the impetuousness of early adulthood, thus predisposing these old boys to behave like young boys and fall into the very same trap. Only they have more money for more guns and ammo so they can kill even more people.
 
A large majority of Americans are in favor of more gun control

You may be right. But that same majority fundamentally misunderstands the nature of the problem and vastly overestimates the ability of elected saviors to solve it.

Again, I'll ask: what gun possession law will deter someone willing to slaughter 17 people? Seriously. Please think about that. If he's willing to break the law against murder, odds are he's willing to take the heat on a gun charge. Get it? More gun laws will not stop this. This is a very inconvenient truth that some people are just unable to accept.

I'm a broken record, I know.
 
You may be right. But that same majority fundamentally misunderstands the nature of the problem and vastly overestimates the ability of elected saviors to solve it.

Again, I'll ask: what gun possession law will deter someone willing to slaughter 17 people? Seriously. Please think about that. If he's willing to break the law against murder, odds are he's willing to take the heat on a gun charge. Get it? More gun laws will not stop this. This is a very inconvenient truth that some people are just unable to accept.

I'm a broken record, I know.
Not allowing folks with known mental health issues to obtain guns might be a good place to start. Real, effective background checks? Longer wait periods so that the system can do it due diligence? Outlawing assault weapons? Again this is way above my pay grade, but I'm sure there are folks (not politicians) out there honest and smart enough to get a handle on our gun problem. The NRA and the small % of extreme 2nd amendment wing-nuts are eventually gonna have to make some concessions/compromises or they will be buried alive by the demand for change.
 
Interesting quick read- https://www.citylab.com/life/2018/02/australia-ambassador-on-why-gun-laws-cant-save-america/553655/

The idea of AI police is not new, I wonder if "they" can/have made an algorithm predicting mass shootings? https://timeline.com/a-tech-startup-for-cops-predicts-future-crimes-f7cd1070047a

With all of the participants in social media and rise of Big Data, might not be too hard.

I see the prime ministers last statement about AI and the widespread use of sensor nets around schools and other public forums as a plausible solution. Power does seem to be shifting away from the tangible towards the intangible. Perhaps in the future your augmented reality glasses or implant will make whoever or whatever you're threatened by glow red or set off an alarm.
 
Interesting quick read- https://www.citylab.com/life/2018/02/australia-ambassador-on-why-gun-laws-cant-save-america/553655/

The idea of AI police is not new, I wonder if "they" can/have made an algorithm predicting mass shootings? https://timeline.com/a-tech-startup-for-cops-predicts-future-crimes-f7cd1070047a

With all of the participants in social media and rise of Big Data, might not be too hard.


https://nypost.com/2018/02/16/fbi-failed-to-investigate-tip-on-school-shooter-last-month/

Maybe the Agencies responsible for Preventing this should be held responsible for not doing their job.
 
https://nypost.com/2018/02/16/fbi-failed-to-investigate-tip-on-school-shooter-last-month/

Maybe the Agencies responsible for Preventing this should be held responsible for not doing their job.
The FBI? What were they gonna do? Arrest him for a crime he hadn't committed yet. Unlawfully confiscate his legally obtained WMD?
What about the local authorities who where called literally dozen and dozens of times? How about all the students, teachers and community members who knew this young man was a walking, talking, ticking time bomb? Lock em' all up?
I do know that if this very unstable young man hadn't been able to walk into a Walmart and legally purchase an AR15 we probably wouldn't be here talking about his killing spree right now.
 
How does that not land for you? A kid gets trained in school to shoot rifles accurately and quickly (with funding from NRA) then returns to school and shoots the place up, that's cool with you?

Have you ever shot a B.B. Gun?

A Pellet rifle?

Everyone my age in my circle had at least 1 B.B. Gun by the time they were 5.

Other than a few innocent windows, no one was ever harmed.
 
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The FBI? What were they gonna do? Arrest him for a crime he hadn't committed yet. Unlawfully confiscate his legally obtained WMD?
What about the local authorities who where called literally dozen and dozens of times? How about all the students, teachers and community who knew this young man was a walking, talking, ticking time bomb? Lock em' all up?
I do know that if this very unstable young man hadn't been able to walk into a Walmart and legally purchase an AR15 we probably wouldn't be here talking bout his killing spree right now.

He was reported to the FBI for making threats to shoot up a school, which I believe to be considered terroristic threats.

The FBI has already admitted they chose not to act upon that information.

If this had been checked out & subsequently proven, we wouldn’t be having this discussion right now because Mr. Cruz would be incarcerated.
 
The FBI? What were they gonna do? Arrest him for a crime he hadn't committed yet. Unlawfully confiscate his legally obtained WMD?
What about the local authorities who where called literally dozen and dozens of times? How about all the students, teachers and community who knew this young man was a walking, talking, ticking time bomb? Lock em' all up?
I do know that if this very unstable young man hadn't been able to walk into a Walmart and legally purchase an AR15 we probably wouldn't be here talking bout his killing spree right now.

My Area has an Air Rifle Program, as well as a Skeet Shooting Program thru the Local 4-H.

These programs are are geared to promote Safe Handling of Firearms.

This is literally the 1st such time, ( that I’m aware of at least), that there has been a direct connection between Youth Shooting Sports & a Tragedy.

And you want to burn it down.
 
That's interesting, if I read correctly you in fact can be jailed for up to ten years for a threat, not sure how I feel about that. But it sounds like a lot would have to go in to proving that. I don't think it's legal to arrest and jail every person who is accused of plotting a crime.

If the threats of him shooting up a school could have been verified before last week, I’d be all for him rotting in prison: think of those 17 children’s parents that wouldn’t be burying their children this week.
 
Not allowing folks with known mental health issues to obtain guns might be a good place to start. Real, effective background checks? Longer wait periods so that the system can do it due diligence? Outlawing assault weapons?

Rico, I share your goals. (Except the assault weapon ban). Those steps are reasonable and achievable. I'd vote for all of them. But.....as I said above... they won't work.

I don't dispute that these steps could save some lives, as noted in Tom's article. Mostly domestic violence offenders and other guys who might go to a gun store to get a gun. Fine.

But it seems like those aren't the guys we are worried about. It's the mass shooters. No national outrage is evident when Bill from Pittsburgh shoots his estranged lover. But here we all are, on a tree forum, debating gun control for days after a school shooting.

These guys will plot. They will wait. They will get a gun. Not from a gun store, so no background check. No mental health requirement, and no assault weapon ban if you get it from the guy down the street for $300 cash.
Get it? The worst ones-the most motivated and crazy-don't care about your laws, background checks, your waiting periods or your assault weapon bans. They will find a way to get a gun no questions asked.

So here we are. I get the impression a lot of people are finding it hard to grasp the fact that there are problems politicians simply can't solve.
 
The NRA maintains a potent and sizable force tweeting out to membership. Seems they were caught dumbfounded after the MARJORIE STONEMAN DOUGLAS HS mass shooting massacre?

And Bucknut, this is the off topic forum. And you're upset we're still discussing the legally purchased M-16 that a Florida State Health Dept. failed-22-times-to-react on known mentally imbalanced shooter?

imrs.webp
 
Silence is golden. It's also telling.
Silence is telling.... that I was having dinner!!

Oak, Im glad to be talking about this. (Well, not glad, but you understand). Not upset with anyone. Didn't mean anything by the "tree forum" comment except that this shooting has got people talking. Even tree guys in a tree forum.

So- how do background checks stop insane murderers from paying cash for a gun from Mike down the street?;)
 

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