Treemotion vs Ergovation: convince me!

I have owned an Ergovation with the "H" style shoulder straps for several years now and love it. I have not tried the Treemotion. I mainly do removals. Yes, the harness does have some weight to it, but I don't feel that weight once it's on and I do hang quite a bit of gear off it. It has comfortable padding around the waist and the leg as well. No discomfort working the spar, limb walking or hanging off the crane.
At 53 I'm all about comfort. Some days I'm 8-10 hours in it. The shoulder harness helps spread out the load especially when carrying a large saw.
I used to have a bad back. That went away after strengthing my stomach muscles. I don't think any saddle will help you with that issue.
TimBr, the cramping is caused by dehydration and your large muscles will be the first to let you know. Your wise to be drinking fluids throughout the day. On hot days where I'm sweating like crazy, I'll have fluids sent up while I'm in the tree (I hate climbing down once I'm up there). Spread out over the day should eliminate the need to urinate and still reduce the risk of dehydration.
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Great photos, thanks for posting. As to drinking throughout the day, I try to drink an amount that feels right while in the tree, but that won't cause me to have to come down, as you alluded to. In the end though, I always end up drinking another full bottle of the electrolyte drink after the climb is over and I'm back at home sitting on the couch unwinding, with easy access to a restroom. That is also when I tend to eat my main meal for the day, so it all goes together well.

It is consuming this fairly large quantity of electrolytes at the end of the day, bringing my total consumption for the day above two bottles, that I believe prevents the cramping. Along with eating the bananas, that is. I've never experimented with isolating the bananas and the electrolyte drinks to see which one contributes more, but I'm pretty sure that it is mainly the drink that helps stop the cramping. The bananas seem like just one more small thing to stack in your favor.

Thanks for listening.

Tim
 
Stuart French said:
The Ergo seems to be centered around padding and back support, but I don't want to be limited to just those things. I think those awkward positions can be hard on my back as well.
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What I'm about to say might sound a little strange, but bear with me. There is a thing called acupressure, I think, which involves having someone feel around on your back with their thumbs, looking for the places that the back muscles are at their tightest. When they find it, by poking you with their thumbs, and you giving feedback, you will feel a real burning sensation when they push hard on a big knot of a muscle.

That burning sensation is what you are looking for in trying to locate the center of the tightest muscles. When the person helping you pushes on those spots pretty hard, and you feel the burn, it causes those muscles to relax and loosen up.

In the absence of someone being around all of the time to do this acupressure stuff to you, there is something that you can do that will allow you to help yourself. What you need to do is to go to a hardware store and buy a drawer-puller that is shaped like a ball, the kind of thing you would buy to put handles onto the face of a bedroom dresser that had no pullers already attached.

Find a flat surface, preferably close to your bed, that you do not mind drilling a hole into, and that will allow you to lean up against it with your back. Mount the drawer puller at the height at which the majority of your tight back muscles exist.

When you wake up in the morning, and you are cold and stiff, is often the time when a really tight set of muscles will want to try to pull on you. With the round drawer puller mounted close to the bed, just lean back against it first thing in the morning, or whenever your back muscles are feeling really tight. The round drawer puller pushing against the tight muscles acts as a substitute for the thumbs of a person performing acupressure on you. The round ball feels more like a single sharp point that you can move around to accurately hit the tightest center of a muscle. This procedure may help to keep your back feeling looser most of the day.

I know it sounds weird, and it takes a bit of work to set up, but I think if you try it you will find that it helps.

Thanks for listening.

Tim
 
Great description on that acupressure technique Tim. I did that. They also sell various wood objects made specifically for the purpose.

I would be surprised if it gives anyone freedom from pain long term though personally.
I think I spent about 6 or $8K having that done to me over months as a part of my journey. Ultimately I decided that it was a 'band aid' stopgap measure (for me) that did not deal with the root cause.
 
More pros to the TM are all the pads are removable and washable, since most harnesses reek pretty bad after a good summer, big perk. Also, I don't know if someone addressed the question about the Israeli bandage offering more support, she does big time in your lumbar area.
I personally use an old version with upgraded padding, I wouldn't trade it for anything.

My only real complaint about the TM is on lake views, if your main tie in is going waist height like on a spar or vista pruning it can still get pretty uncomfortable. The Ergo shines in these applications.





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TimBr said:
Hey sallows! Interesting and useful comments, thanks for rendering your opinion! Welcome to the TreeBuzz forum!

Tim
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Thanks Tim, I'm a returning member. Formerly ChrisOTS. Changed my name since it referenced the first company I climbed for.


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squad143 said:
Swallows
Did you work that tornado that went through Goderich a few years back?
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You bet. I'll assume autocorrect did that typo on you. ;)
It was one hell of a mess here in town, it will never feel the same. That storm changed my view and outlook on the field.

We met at that EHAP course at TCIA in November, I work for Jessie.


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Stuart French said:
I am going with the TM. It seems to have almost an equal amount of padding, yet also has the customization, lower d's, and just a total change in thought on a harness. Ordering today at treestuff, I'll let you guys know how it goes.


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Why not the MCRS ? That's got some really nice padding , and very customizable! I've been loving mine as a previous T.M. owner which I loved as well , just wore out the webbing straps on legs and was looking for a change . No regrets !
 
Stuart French said:
Honestly, I am not comfortable with the idea of trusting in those anchor bends, even though for many climbs I used anchor bends as my termination.


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On the virgin run they set after a couple good bounce tests to affirm a good tip from the ground. The tail is plenty long with a fat tail stitch , heep an eye on them for the first climb ,but once set they don't move around , at least that's been my experience.
 
Stuart French said:
I am going with the TM. It seems to have almost an equal amount of padding, yet also has the customization, lower d's, and just a total change in thought on a harness. Ordering today at treestuff, I'll let you guys know how it goes.


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Since when does the Ergovation not have Lower D's? o_O

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I'm not saying they aren't safe, if they weren't, no one would sell them. I just want a permanent termination. I would want to always keep my eye on the anchor bends like in a normal Ddrt system.


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merle_nelson said:
Great description on that acupressure technique Tim. I did that. They also sell various wood objects made specifically for the purpose.

I would be surprised if it gives anyone freedom from pain long term though personally.
I think I spent about 6 or $8K having that done to me over months as a part of my journey. Ultimately I decided that it was a 'band aid' stopgap measure (for me) that did not deal with the root cause.
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Thanks, Merle. The way I would tend to use the method that I described would be as a preventive measure, to try to keep tight back muscles from turning into a back muscle pull, which could also then turn into a series of back muscle pulls. As one back muscle pull tries to heal itself, the tendency is for the healing but tight back muscle to pull on an adjoining one, causing it to pull. By using the wooden ball for acupressure on the too-tight back muscles, the hope is to prevent any more from pulling, also.

You are correct in what you are saying, though, about it not fixing the actual problem. As I have not yet purchased the books you've recommended, maybe you could give me the "Cliff notes" version of what the actual cure is. If I had to guess, I'd think that the folks recommending yoga and similar practices might be on the right track. Strengthening of the body's entire core of muscles, in an attempt to keep them all working in balance with each other. Is this guess anywhere close to the truth?

Thanks in advance for any answer you choose to give.

Tim
 
Tim, you know I love you....

The cliff notes are, spend $17 get Somatics by Thomas Hanna and read the first 43 pages.

I spent about $50,000 for all kinds of modalities and suffered all kinds of pain and down time over about 30 years.

Your muscles and your body can work fine all the way till the day or a hand full of months before you die. We all worked fine as kids. 80% of industrialized world has troubles or chronic issues as adults.

Get your muscles back to experience they had when you were a kid. Takes me about 15 minutes a day to get back to a workable point to laze on the couch or stand on the side of a tree all day pain free.

I did Yoga once a week with my wife for 7 years, loved it.

Wish I would have known AND done Somatics from day one.
 
You're welcome. I long ago gave up that people are going to do what I think they aught to do in life, but I do want people to be aware of it as an option.

It sure would have saved me a lot of life issues.
 
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