Tree worker beat by crowd

OK, well I'm good with agreeing to disagree. I'm sorry if some of my language didn't sound good. I'm an old school kinda guy but I got a good heart. I promise.
My main goal is to make sure we don't dishonor this guy.

Kevin, me too.
 
macswan said:
this country is set up to benefit wealthy white men and exploit everyone else.
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Take pretty much every country in sub Saharan Africa and change the word 'white' for 'black' and your quote will be as relevant to those countries as your take on America is to you. Wealthy black leaders in Africa are exploiting everyone else in their respective countries.

This leaves your argument about America and white dominance carrying very little weight. People have been exploiting each other since the dawn of time, all countries, all tribes, all groups of people with no exception have done bad things.

Why is it you and other apologists like to judge America and other western countries by their lowest moments? to do this is wrong, not only wrong but self defeating.
 
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I think you all are feeling for Steve due to the importance for him to be healthy to support his family, and so do I as do a huge number of people who find this attack to be outrageous and uncalled for. Not just firemen nor policemen share that kind of brother (sister) hood when one of their own is struck down. It was distressing to read that Steve was so traumatized that he actually became violent himself in the hospital in self-defense and required a medically-induced coma to keep him and others from harm. I hope he and the community can come to healing so the cycle of violence can stop spinning out of control.

I look at it this way: he was attacked by persons of color, and a person of color came to his aid and likely saved him from the worst--let's take that lesson to heart and be glad for Deborah Hughes, the African American woman who saw someone in trouble from her house window and put herself on the line (even if she carried a .38 with her which has been reported she did, that was no guarantee against a half dozen young men whose motives we cannot really be arrogant enough to assume we know) to go out and help him.

I would like to be like Deborah and see a human being first.
 
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TC said:
Take pretty much every country in sub Saharan Africa and change the word 'white' for 'black' and your quote will be as relevant to those countries as your take on America is to you. Wealthy black leaders in Africa are exploiting everyone else in their respective countries.

This leaves your argument about America and white dominance carrying very little weight. People have been exploiting each other since the dawn of time, all countries, all tribes, all groups of people with no exception have done bad things.

Why is it you and other apologists like to judge America and other western countries by their lowest moments? to do this is wrong, not only wrong but self defeating.
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This dude knows how to FOX News®.

SZ
 
easyphloem said:
This dude knows how to FOX News®.

SZ
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There's a common theme here, Macswan tried to shut down the issue of race at the start of the thread, now easy's attempting to shut down any argument that contradicts his apparent left leaning progressive and enlightened beliefs. That's the problem with the left, they try to suppress and marginalize any opinion contrary their own. It doesn't fit their ideology, so they shut it down with accusations of racist, bigot, neo con etc.

The reason they try to shut down the debate is because they know deep down their arguments are built on sand, at the core of left wing ideology is a stubborn refusal to see the world as it is, they're caught in the grip of their own ideology.

If minorities are so oppressed in America, why do they keep coming to America? why would people choose to live in a country where they are so oppressed?

In the long term, people like Macswan and easy perpetuate the idea of minorities as victims and second class citizens.
 
I think that it makes a huge difference if your relationship to this country was never voluntary. That is something that most people can not wrap their head around and something that you can't just forget about.
 
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Privilege is a tricky thing. If you have it, often you don't often know it. And if you don't know it, it is incredibly difficult to understand how it might affect those who do not.

According to the US Bureau of Labor, in 2012 the median earnings of a white male were 879/week. Black men 665/week. White women earned 710/week and black women earned 599/week. The pay difference simply between white men and white women can equate to a total of $400,000 dollars in lost wages for women over their respective working lives.

That's privilege.

According to the US Department of Corrections, 1 in every 15 African American men and 1 in every 36 Hispanic men are incarcerated in comparison to 1 in every 106 white men despite the fact that people of color only make up 30% of the US population.

That should give pause to reflection. There are a whole host of statistics out there that point to disparities in sentencing and arrest rates due to race. We can argue their validity till every one is blue in the face.

In 29 states it is completely legal to fire someone, not hire them, or deny them housing based on their sexual orientation. And it just happen to a group of three straight teachers in North Carolina who fired simply because they were suspected of being gay.

For a long portion of modern human history, Irish people were considered a barbarous and inferior race. Insane, no?

The thing that I think everyone can agree on is that there is something fishy going on and it is systemic. It affects our mothers, daughters, family, and friends.

“People tend to think that stereotypes are honest reflections of what they see in the world. But instead, they often shape how we see the world."

What happened in Detroit was a complete tragedy on so many different levels. It should never have happened, but the fact that it did should inspire us to reflect on the make up of our society and how we each contribute to it; to consider how the roles we allow ourselves to play affect our community and be open to releasing the grip on the tightly held beliefs, stereotypes, and assumptions that make up our day to day lives.
 
It is very easy to label someone who is different or looks different or thinks differently from one's self. It is a way to brand a group or a person as "the other", something that I learned about in a documentary on the history of propaganda (in the context of wars and lead up to a war). Once someone or a group of people are viewed as "the other", they lose a bit of their humanity to the eyes of those who consider themselves in the mainstream. Ladybird is right, fear and suspicion of those who may not be like ourselves build into a belief system that they are somehow less human than us.

Ponder on how you were carefully taught.
 
ladybird said:
Privilege is a tricky thing. If you have it, often you don't often know it. And if you don't know it, it is incredibly difficult to understand how it might affect those who do not.

According to the US Bureau of Labor, in 2012 the median earnings of a white male were 879/week. Black men 665/week. White women earned 710/week and black women earned 599/week. The pay difference simply between white men and white women can equate to a total of $400,000 dollars in lost wages for women over their respective working lives.

That's privilege.
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so all whites are passive oppressors? take a few moments to reflect on the absurdity of your conclusion. As a proposition, white privilege is one of the most pathetic things I've heard in my life.

It's like saying if we allow mass migration of non whites into America it will increase white privilege, can't you see the absurdity of this?

The most worrying aspect of this white privilege you speak of is that it encourages non whites to despise white people for the obvious reason they are born privileged.

I don't accept the idea of white privilege, I find it counter intuitive to human nature and Orwellian in tone. Most of all I find it depressingly sad. It's sad because you people can't see how much you're hurting not only whites but all of society with your misguided good intentions. You think feeling bad about being white makes you a more virtuous person?
 
I don't think all whites are passive oppressors. But I think people who share your views are. I don't feel bad about being white, can't control it. I am what I am. What I am is part of the ruling class, and the least I can do is not perpetuate the status quo. Which is unequal.
 
'passive oppressors' - you can't be a passive oppressor, that was my point, that's why the notion of 'white privilege' is absurd.

You're completely deluded if you think your part of the ruling class.
 
ladybird said:
Privilege is a tricky thing. If you have it, often you don't often know it. And if you don't know it, it is incredibly difficult to understand how it might affect those who do not.

According to the US Bureau of Labor, in 2012 the median earnings of a white male were 879/week. Black men 665/week. White women earned 710/week and black women earned 599/week. The pay difference simply between white men and white women can equate to a total of $400,000 dollars in lost wages for women over their respective working lives.

That's privilege.
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Is it privilege? Or is it a combination of genetics and ambition? Men don't get pregnant and require multiple weeks off. Men are statistically MUCH more likely to work more than 40 hours per week. Men have been shown to be much more likely (temperamentally) to negotiate for higher pay, and they tend to work disproportionately in much more physically dangerous jobs, which tend to pay more. The "gender gap" is an appealing stat to toss around, until you dig a little deeper. When you compare apples to apples (like 30 years old, never married, no kids, Master's degree, similar career field, etc....) the gap shrinks tremendously.

Let's stop making excuses for barbaric behavior.
 
macswan said:
Carol, what is that clip from?
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Would you believe Rodgers & Hammerstein's "South Pacific"? WWII backdrop for American navy personnel in Polynesia and dealing with conflicted feelings about how they feel about the exotic people of the islands, including a Frenchman with mixed race children. The young lieutenant in the clip wants to marry a Tonkinese girl but decides his prominent family in Philadelphia who sent him to an Ivy League school before the war won't wear it.

Stage play came out in 1949 and the film came out about 10 years later.
 
TC said:
'passive oppressors' - you can't be a passive oppressor, that was my point, that's why the notion of 'white privilege' is absurd.

You're completely deluded if you think your part of the ruling class.
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Race and gender, ruling class. Get out of tickets, don't get pulled over when trafficking drugs, unsuspected of rape. Easier to get loans from banks, ETC, ETC, ETC.
 
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