"Tree Experts" and "Tree Preservation" companies; misnamed and misleading.

Raby, welcome to TreeBuzz. Have you had a chance to check the profiles of some of the people you're talking to yet on the members list? Or followed out some of their past posts on threads that pique your interest?

Only reason I ask is that I think quite a few are in alignment with some of your basic stated concepts.

As you like though, I could be wrong about how much some of these guys care about trees etc. Anyway, again, welcome.
 
Raby Woodsman said:
All on your island?
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Yes
Raby Woodsman said:
My company has already been created and my passion for changing the status quo is such that I hope that one tree at a time, I will help shape the public's perception of what is right and proper, so that the companies that do bad work will no longer be able to pretend to know what they are talking about, and will have to find another industry to ruin.
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What is your company and what is your service area?
I can sympathize with the "just cut it out of my mountain view" any sort of height reduction in a conifer is topping in my opinion. It is just a set up for codoms and octopus limbs until the tree falls apart, becomes hazardous, or is eventually removed due to cost of maintaining it. Frequently there are better options
 
Please do attempt to be a better arborist than I--and succeed!

You could start by sharing your insights on a better approach to the pine and the euc.

Would you have told the client that either adding two stories to their cabin or removing the trees were the only ways to see the lake?

Would you have refused to prune them, and watched your competitors get the work, and the followup work on the rest of the estate?

If so, why would you refuse to prune them as I did? Or do you know of a better way?

evo, yes reducing a stem is by definition 'topping'--in the UK. but your predictions of inevitable results may be missing something:

"“When a leader is reduced, upright laterals can develop into leaders. Other, more horizontal branches send up reiterations, new tips into the light. So a more or less excurrent part of a crown will become more decurrent, its vigor distributed to several nodes, which grow more gradually than a single leader. It’s like the old fashioned way of training a fruit tree; small cuts forcing maturity ahead of time.” I checked the next item, and started to stand. “So our specifications result in healthy growth and longevity. We are ready for the client.”
“Not so fast, Dendro.” Perry clamped his hand on my shoulder and rocked me back to earth. “How can that poor pine tree be sustainably shortened? Singlestemmed species do not have all those growing points to develop a lower crown. Look at 6.1.7: ‘Topping…shall be considered unacceptable’ How can a central leader be sustainably managed, if it is shortened for view?”

“Oh, I forgot that you were not on that job with the Pinus strobus at the hills back home.” I gently replied, reaching for a refill. “Pruning is not topping, if done to nodes and with regard to health and structure. The answer can be found in larger birds, my physique after a hearty meal, and my headgear”///“You saw those excurrent Araucaria nearby going decurrent at maturity. Perhaps controlled pruning can even “veteranize” a pine by initiating that process before its time. 4.58: ‘Pruning to enhance a specific view without jeopardizing he health of the tree.’ By carefully shifting apical dominance with the smallest cut possible, the tree will spread,""

OK guys, I'm all ears. What in the above is wrong, and what would you have done right?
 
guymayor said:
“When a leader is reduced, upright laterals can develop into leaders. Other, more horizontal branches send up reiterations, new tips into the light. So a more or less excurrent part of a crown will become more decurrent, its vigor distributed to several nodes, which grow more gradually than a single leader. It’s like the old fashioned way of training a fruit tree; small cuts forcing maturity ahead of time.” I checked the next item, and started to stand. “So our specifications result in healthy growth and longevity. We are ready for the client.”
“Not so fast, Dendro.” Perry clamped his hand on my shoulder and rocked me back to earth. “How can that poor pine tree be sustainably shortened? Singlestemmed species do not have all those growing points to develop a lower crown. Look at 6.1.7: ‘Topping…shall be considered unacceptable’ How can a central leader be sustainably managed, if it is shortened for view?”

“Oh, I forgot that you were not on that job with the Pinus strobus at the hills back home.” I gently replied, reaching for a refill. “Pruning is not topping, if done to nodes and with regard to health and structure. The answer can be found in larger birds, my physique after a hearty meal, and my headgear”///“You saw those excurrent Araucaria nearby going decurrent at maturity. Perhaps controlled pruning can even “veteranize” a pine by initiating that process before its time. 4.58: ‘Pruning to enhance a specific view without jeopardizing he health of the tree.’ By carefully shifting apical dominance with the smallest cut possible, the tree will spread,"

OK guys, I'm all ears. What in the above is wrong, and what would you have done right?
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I would have put a space between "Single" and "stemmed" and used italics for the latin (Pinus strobus, Araucaria), and there is a "t" missing where it should read, " . . . jeopardizing [t]he health . . . "

Also, and this is is an interesting debate about intention, but if "its" is a pronoun for the pine, the use is correct. However, if someone intends the same statement to read "before it is time" then of course it would be "it's."
 
The_Archdruid said:
I would have put a space between "Single" and "stemmed" and used italics for the latin (Pinus strobus, Araucaria), and there is a "t" missing where it should read, " . . . jeopardizing [t]he health . . . "

Also, and this is is an interesting debate about intention, but if "its" is a pronoun for the pine, the use is correct. However, if someone intends the same statement to read "before it is time" then of course it would be "it's."
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You are correct, sir.

SZ
 
Raby, I also would like to know what your personal limits are on proper and acceptable tree care.
 
evo said:
Yes

What is your company and what is your service area?
I can sympathize with the "just cut it out of my mountain view" any sort of height reduction in a conifer is topping in my opinion. It is just a set up for codoms and octopus limbs until the tree falls apart, becomes hazardous, or is eventually removed due to cost of maintaining it. Frequently there are better options
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My company is a company that I operate and it will cover the Greater Seattle, Eastside and Puget Sound region or wherever trees are in need of a caring hand.
 
guymayor said:
Please do attempt to be a better arborist than I--and succeed!

You could start by sharing your insights on a better approach to the pine and the euc.

Would you have told the client that either adding two stories to their cabin or removing the trees were the only ways to see the lake?

Would you have refused to prune them, and watched your competitors get the work, and the followup work on the rest of the estate?

If so, why would you refuse to prune them as I did? Or do you know of a better way?

evo, yes reducing a stem is by definition 'topping'--in the UK. but your predictions of inevitable results may be missing something:

"“When a leader is reduced, upright laterals can develop into leaders. Other, more horizontal branches send up reiterations, new tips into the light. So a more or less excurrent part of a crown will become more decurrent, its vigor distributed to several nodes, which grow more gradually than a single leader. It’s like the old fashioned way of training a fruit tree; small cuts forcing maturity ahead of time.” I checked the next item, and started to stand. “So our specifications result in healthy growth and longevity. We are ready for the client.”
“Not so fast, Dendro.” Perry clamped his hand on my shoulder and rocked me back to earth. “How can that poor pine tree be sustainably shortened? Singlestemmed species do not have all those growing points to develop a lower crown. Look at 6.1.7: ‘Topping…shall be considered unacceptable’ How can a central leader be sustainably managed, if it is shortened for view?”

“Oh, I forgot that you were not on that job with the Pinus strobus at the hills back home.” I gently replied, reaching for a refill. “Pruning is not topping, if done to nodes and with regard to health and structure. The answer can be found in larger birds, my physique after a hearty meal, and my headgear”///“You saw those excurrent Araucaria nearby going decurrent at maturity. Perhaps controlled pruning can even “veteranize” a pine by initiating that process before its time. 4.58: ‘Pruning to enhance a specific view without jeopardizing he health of the tree.’ By carefully shifting apical dominance with the smallest cut possible, the tree will spread,""

OK guys, I'm all ears. What in the above is wrong, and what would you have done right?
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It is very difficult to say anything about what I would have done without seeing the situation in person and meeting the customer face to face.

I can say however that from the photograph of the vista from the cabin that there was plenty of view available above and around the trees; not just the two in question but all of the collective canopy below the cabin.

From my experience of people with views; regardless of the size of view they currently have, could have or would like to have; it is never enough. Like so many people's desire for wealth and power, I see that people so often suffer from the sickening disease of 'View Greed'.

Much of our work is counseling humans as well as managing vegetation.
 
These people did not have a sickening disease; they just wanted to see the water; it's there in black and white. Let's not dodge the question or change the subject into sociology and psychology.
The objectives and options and tree conditions were spelled out in detail, with images--enough to form an opinion. You do form opinions, right? Your OP was full of opinions about other companies' work--please light into mine!

as in "Raby, I also would like to know what your personal limits are on proper and acceptable tree care.", it's rather straightforward. You've opined on what you think is wrong--please tell us what specifically do you think is right to do with trees like the pine and the euc?
 
This may be true Guy, but some people are very narcissistic with getting what they want.. And I do disagree with with crown reduction on a single stemmed excurrent species in a general sense. Sure if the tree is close to that stage of maturity, but this is often not the case. When do we start these treatments? A 60' doug fir is going to react much different than a 120' + tree. Age, location, and vigor plays a huge roll.
 
evo said:
This may be true Guy, but some people are very narcissistic with getting what they want.. And I do disagree with with crown reduction on a single stemmed excurrent species in a general sense. Sure if the tree is close to that stage of maturity, but this is often not the case. When do we start these treatments? A 60' doug fir is going to react much different than a 120' + tree. Age, location, and vigor plays a huge roll.
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Experience plays a huge factor in what can reasonably be done. I'm way more comfortable prescribing weight reductions, sometimes heavy, now that I have years of experience noting how trees react to pruning or injury.

SZ
 
In a neighboring town, if you have a house with a view of a water body, the land your house is on is taxed at a minimum of 1 million. If people are paying out the arse for a view of water I really can't blame them for wanting to see what they are being taxed on.

Maybe not one million the more I think. Maybe it was three quarters. Eh, whatever.
 
evo you're right, but we do not know until we try. If the distance between whorls is naturally getting smaller, as with the hoop pine, then maybe the tree is trying to tell us to follow its lead. If not and the tree resprouts strongly, that means it will need more maintenance; not desirable but not a dealbreaker. Or is it?

so what would you have done with the hoop pine in the story, to achieve the objectives of the view to the water, enhanced bird habitat, and standard tree care practices?
 
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