"Tree Experts" and "Tree Preservation" companies; misnamed and misleading.

[evo]

evo you're right, but we do not know until we try. If the distance between whorls is naturally getting smaller, as with the hoop pine, then maybe the tree is trying to tell us to follow its lead. If not and the tree resprouts strongly, that means it will need more maintenance; not desirable but not a dealbreaker. Or is it?

so what would you have done with the hoop pine in the story, to achieve the objectives of the view to the water, enhanced bird habitat, and standard tree care practices?

To be honest I didn't read your story. I am not familiar with hoop pines. However I do maintain some view trees and as long as the client is the one wanting the work done (not the neighbor up the hill) it will gene all be maintained.
We have many topped conifers in my area, I know of at least one person who did that work. He would take small tops and stress the maintained cycle, and the trees rarely were. He stopped doing this style of work solely because he felt he was messing up the trees and creating more hazards.
There are situations for everything, including blowing out tops with explosives, but these are generally tools in the bag and only used when applicable. I see it being over sold because it is the " magic solution" and plays into fear.
The tree in my avatar is a Douglas fir growing on a 30' cliff out of solid rock. This tree has been climbed so much the bark is polished smooth, but hasn't ever been pruned.

 

[southsoundtree]

Treebuzz trial by fire. Those who offer strong opinions at first posting and encounter strong opinions in opposition to their own, do not last long. I have a theory that they drift over to the treehouse where people are 'nicer'

Really?

 

[JontreeHI]

Really?

Maybe not raby but I'm thinking fondly of Johan Greene et al

 

[JontreeHI]

Although the treehouse comment isn't really relevant . I prefer treebuzz but the tone is different on TH

 

[southsoundtree]

To each, their own, right?

Johan Greene???

 

[Pelorus]

Greene???

Of Bristol Tree Service fame? Arrrrgh.
Wasn't aware he was on TH.
(note to self to tread lightly....)

 

[JontreeHI]

He's not on the to my knowledge, but look for his thread on here. An epic thread, a short lived existence. I think it was called tree removal help
And little Tarzan was the other really good one.

 

[Pelorus]

Two TB Greene threads were awesome.
1. a strong enough rope to negative block trees his ex-phone co. truck was height-limited in reaching, and 2. a climbing question that morphed into the ethics of posting climbing photos sourced off the Internet on his website.
I kinda miss ole Johan. Sure livened up this place.
The let's fill a tree cavity with concrete thread by another departed soul was good too.

 

[guymayor]

Evo, why weren't the conifers repruned? Every tree needs some follow up sometime. Contractors can get follow up approved ahead of time can't they?

It was not the tone of my response but the specificity that may have thrown Raby off the hunt. It is so easy to throw hand grenades but far riskier to explain yourself. Harder to show than to tell.

 

[easyphloem]

Did we have a rage-quitter? Too bad.

Getting clients on board for regular maintenance pruning is a challenge. Two years ago I met with an older couple who have lived in their house for decades, and the Aristocrat Pear in the front yard is "too big". The lady of the house wanted it down below the gutters in height, which is around 20' (the tree was about 30' tall).

I explained to them what topping was, and then told them about pollard pruning. So, we agreed that we would reduce the tree's height to ~20', with a rounded crown, and after we finished, it looked like a nicely topped Pear.

The clients promised to call back in two years to prune all of the new growth back to the heading cuts that we created.

Sure enough, they called back a month ago, and the lady says it's still too tall, and wants it down another 18" - 24". I told her that we will not top the tree again, and offered to give her a proposal for pollard pruning. She insisted on getting it taken down some more.

So I gave her a proposal that was twice the price of the last topping. She didn't call back.

Win for the good guys? Probably not.

But this illustrates why I hate people so much.

SZ

 

[Leroy]

I love pollarding but also hate people.

 

[Naturalway]

Being an "expert" does require certain parameters and qualifications. Become a Board Certified Master Arborist (BCMA) and a Registered Consulting Arborist (RCA), as well as other designations like Tree Risk Assessment Qualified. With these designations, you will become an expert and start being asked to perform tasks relegated to professional experts.

And I would like to hear how you would make those accountable? More government regulations? A nationwide or state licensing process? Lawsuits?

I agree a lot of the big national companies upsell and sell unneeded services to feed the machine and increase profits/revenue and mainly commissions.

Chemicals are chemicals and its a tricky word. The world is made up of chemicals both natural and man made but man made water and natural occurring water is the same chemical and no less harmful or helpful. Broadcast sprays don't have a place in today's arboriculture nor does high nitrogen fertilizer (leave that to the farmers).

We have been in business and have had an environmentally conscious PHC program for over 20 year, that is why I started my business. Our clients view our services as a benefit to the value of their landscapes and I could make a strong arguments that we have enhanced and increased values of those landscapes. Would you let a tree slowly die from an easily treated insect such as Kermes Scale or Tortoise Scale? If you become an RCA you will see monatary values of trees supported in the courts as well as by individuals and communities.

You want the same level of creditability as a doctor but you refuse to use "medicines", imagine going to the doctor and he says "well, you have a treatable disease but I don't believe in medicines so let's let nature take it's course and see if your body can fight this illness off or you die."

 

[Leroy]

A human life is a bit different from a landscape tree.

 

[marlinspiker]

I look at chemical use as a cost benefit analysis. Certain tree species without the aid of chemicals would die. Does the environmental benefit of keeping a large veteran tree alive outweigh the chance for environmental contamination? Should we allow entire species to become functionally extinct? According to the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania it does. Im not quick to prescribe chemicals and try to get clients working with a soil first approach but unfortunately preemptive organic soil care does not interest many until the tree is in need of chemical intervention for survival.

 

[guymayor]

EZ I doubt that you actually topped the tree. If you cut to growth points with a regard for health and structure (and I would add with a sustainable outcome), that ain't topping--though it may look bad to us who have been duped into an anti-topping hysteria. Reading your post, you express guilt over "heading cuts that we created" as if you cut the head off of Michaelangelo's David. I think you should get over the DUMB rules that exist in the US standard, but are not in the more relevant German and UK standards.

Post a pic if you dare! Taking a pear from 20' to 18' does not sound like tree sin aka treason hahaha. Progressive reduction can work on trees like callery pears, It's a shame to see it done to an Aristocrat, but it ain't my tree. Or yours.
To ensure followup, I often get a signature on a work order. In some cases I ask for (and get) 50% up front, and deduct for interest.

Look at Naturalway's post: "You want the same level of creditability as a doctor but you refuse to use "medicines", imagine going to the doctor and he says "well, you have a treatable disease but I don't believe in medicines so let's let nature take it's course and see if your body can fight this illness off or you die."
You are refusing to take 2 more feet off that pear, because you don't believe in that medicine.
Why not?
Forget the heading-cut crap in the US standard and dumbed-down dogma that we've heard all our lives, and listen to the tree. It may say "Go ahead!" Look at Redtree's posts on crown reduction.

Pollarding is high maintenance. I hate it when 3 people write dumb rules to keep their profits up, then call it "industry consensus" because no one can make enough sense out of it to make a sensible comment.

 

[easyphloem]

I used "heading cuts" as a lure.

Of course, we cut to growth points, and left laterals the size of a pencil on a wrist sized cut.

I'll try to get a picture of the tree. I don't harbor any guilt about the initial pruning though.

Good ideas on the contract for the follow up prune. Something tells me this particular lady will want an additional 2 feet off the next time.

Hence, my hatred for mankind.

SZ

 

[guymayor]

With clients like that, to set the job objective, some psychological counseling is needed, to get to their true motivations. If they can't 'go there', at least they will know you care, and have something to think about. With aging clients, dementia can be an obstacle in this effort.

I hate hatred.

 

[easyphloem]

EZ...
You are refusing to take 2 more feet off that pear, because you don't believe in that medicine.
Why not?

I didn't refuse. I gave a price, for what it would be worth for me to continue the relationship with these clients.

SZ

 

[JeffGu]

I gave a price, for what it would be worth for me to continue the relationship...

I've heard that line so many times. Usually, I was half drunk and at a sleazy motel with a hooker.

 

[Naturalway]

A human life is a bit different from a landscape tree.

Of course, I think we all agree to that. It was an analogy regarding pesticides/trees to medicines/people. We have certain tools available to us and we have the choice to use them or not, and to use them wisely or foolishly. We also have a duty to our clients to service their landscape needs and part of that is controling damaging insect populations.