tool/chainsaw lanyard attachment options while in a bucket truck?

Merle Nelson said:
Phenomenal contribution to do that test and put it up - thank you. I wonder if it is breaking the zip ties, essentially, one at a time? So adding more gains little. Perhaps going to beefier zip ties?

Separately TreeStuff has break away lanyards with two bucklesnaps that they say reliably break at 300#. I've wondered if removing one snap would get that down to a reasonable level for lift use on a top handle saw.
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The first tests that I did, I just looped the zip ties onto the ladder rung and then clipped the lanyard to them. This definitely had them loaded unevenly and breaking one at a time. I took that test up to 8 zip ties that broke easily from the drop test. So then I switched to the Delta link so that it was flat stock against flat stock, and cinched the zip ties up tight. Of course the cinching wasn't exactly equal, but this should have had them being loaded far more evenly than before. I took that 2nd test up to 6 zip ties which all broke easily. Temperature might have been a factor, as plastic and nylon get brittle when frozen, but the package said they should be good down to -20 and it was only -12. Open to ideas.
 
I would really be interested in just seeing how lanyards respond to a dropped saw shock load in the their own right. I use these in the bucket:


If I had a scale that would record peak load I'd bust a couple to see where they finally gave out. Would be nice if manufacturers posted some videos of their product testing to showcase how it actually works/deploys and the forces that are generated. I have to imagine those videos are floating around internally.

props to taking the time to test the zip ties. At least we know a general peak load for a dropped 16lb saw.

Instead of zip ties, how about small tied loops made from zing-it or some similar throwline. I'm thinking like a link of throwline between the saw and the lanyard.
 
Well I don't want to be constantly thinking about the temperature when I'm working and wondering if its appropriate for my breakaway connection. Now I'm leaning more towards the split key ring connection, like Drayer uses.

drayer.de

Tango Chainsaw Lanyard Classic

The Tango Chainsaw Lanyard Classic is your reliable partner for securely attaching your chainsaw or other tools while working in a tree. The lanyard is made from a sturdy and elastic webbing that ensures reliable security while being flexible enough not to restrict your freedom of movement. The…
drayer.de drayer.de
 
For better or worse, I don't recall people ever using a saw lanyard in the bucket where I first got into tree work, and honestly I don't myself now that I have my own bucket truck. Yet of course I use one when climbing.

I guess my reasoning, and perhaps I'm just justifying after the fact, is if I'm in the bucket and someone is below, they aren't coming under while I'm cutting and the saw would be free. I'm either tossing the brush off to the side, or they don't come under unless the piece has hit the ground and my saw is in the scabbard. Like Muggs, I've almost had it fall when the saw and scabbard got knocked loose brushing against some limbs.

It's probably something I should play with, but I certainly wouldn't want to attach a big saw with a lanyard to my fall arrest harness, as either it breaks away and falls anyway, or pulls you out of the bucket...
 
Awesome, Muggs! Read the first 17 youtube comments 3 hrs old = now that's fresh. One was about squishy human anchor. I think it's valid to test both rigid (bucket) and squishy human saddle scenarios. The rigid will have a higher peak possibly even 2x higher based on my experience.

Could you try a loose ziptie doughnut with various number zipties perhaps loosely combined with a couple wraps of tape? The elongation of the doughnut shape on impact will likely snub the peak somewhat. For fun make a doughnut with a medium soft block of foam in the center that the zip ties have to squish upon impact. If it works co-credit invention? :)
Maybe a foam street hockey ball?

To reduce risk of damage on a squishy human/saddle drop maybe a top handle 6 lb weight from an actual gear loop, wearing the saddle vs same 6 lb ziptied to ladder.

You did this with our current crappy weather? You're one robust dude. Kudos.

edit - sorry for not spotting that you already tried loose zipties. agree with brittle cold plastic comment
edit2 - ms200t might be more like 8 lbs
edit3 - I square my ms260 18" bar catch on a small (plastic!) caritool with your results by saying snubbing the peak force is an important effect
 
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Phil said:
In the past I have attached the chainsaw lanyard to the same fall arrest anchor my deceleration lanyard is attached to while in a bucket/lift. On some units, the location of that anchor means the lanyard is too short to reach the cuts or the saw lanyard interfers/crosses over the bucket controls. These days I have taken to attaching the chainsaw lanyard to my fall arrest harness as there are no other options for attachment on the bucket. I specifically use breakaway lanyards.

Wondering where others attach their saw lanyards while in a lift.
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At my place we use the recoil full reach. It gives you 60" of stretch. attach it straight to the buckets hard point
 
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Muggs, check out hownot2 vids where they go to a rope mfr and drop test, One vid is inside like an elevator shaft and another is an outdoor frame, there might also be a big indoor frame too. In these tests they often reach a puzzled conclusion "It shouldn't have broken" and they leave it at that. Squishy anchor point! Their breaks are on ridiculously rigid anchors like I beams.


On your tight zip ties on delta link it occurred to me that anything except perfect vertical centered drop can lever the delta link sideways against the outermost zip tie, focusing the load and breaking it first with a following series failure. In parallel load situations equalising the load is a challenge. It is sometimes achieved by having longer elements so the slightly shorter ones are able to stretch enough to let the load start to also settle on the longer elements. The longer the element the more give-distance it has to offer. In our case longer zip ties all set equally, hooked onto self-aligning biners might offer a better result. Seeing a good load distribution before shock loading and kind of holding that alignment with tape might help.

Yeah I'm winter inside bound.

The setup order of anchor load cell element lanyard weight is correct IMO. If it went anchor element loadcell Its wrong IMO because then the body of the load cell would have to accelerate to a new position in space as the element shock-load-stretched and this would add an f=ma error to the reading. post factum nerd alert ;)

edit - I realise the irony that having a squishy anchor introduces f=ma error :) An estimate is by symmetrical load cell design effectively 1/2 its mass creates error reading so eg 200 lb spike on 15 lbs 200/15=13G spike, applied to 1/2x1 lb load cell = 6.5 lbs error introduced to the reading.


edit2 - this issue is worthy of the fast-pull/slow-pull testing conundrum, with the extreme variant of fast-pull being shock-load. energy absorption and localised heating, or brittle fracture.
 
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I've wondered now and then if one couldn't have "calibrated" magnets on a breakaway tool lanyard - the old vinyl covered magnets with hooks glued into them that Richard Mumford used to sell for his Mag Throwbag rig are really really strong. Could suface area of the mating faces be manipulated to give a specific pull away force/ weight rating? I know as is, when these come together, you don't want to have fingers anywhere near them. Hmmmm ?
 
ghostice said:
I've wondered now and then if one couldn't have "calibrated" magnets on a breakaway tool lanyard - the old vinyl covered magnets with hooks glued into them that Richard Mumford used to sell for his Mag Throwbag rig are really really strong. Could suface area of the mating faces be manipulated to give a specific pull away force/ weight rating? I know as is, when these come together, you don't want to have fingers anywhere near them. Hmmmm ?
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That might not be a cheap solution, but it's one that I think could offer predictable, reliable results.
 
Have you ever experienced "why is this screw sticking to my screwdriver?" why the heck is my screwdriver magnetised? So's my hacksaw blade. ...... cripes. oh,, my magnetic pickup tool was lying there :(

Picture magnetised saw, handsaw etc and all the ensuing fun - especially chain filing.

Strong magnets and phones/swipe cards?


In theory you might be able to find correct size magnets per saw weight and design to keep the force pure axial/face-pull-apart. Probably enough temperature stability. But the attachment contact, and force, is hypersensitive to any gap size so ability for clean assembly/(re)attachment is key.




On Drop Load:
MS260 10.5 lbs + 2 lbs 18" bar and chain = 12.5 lbs successfully caught by 11 lb rated small plastic Caritool? Not only dropped, snatched in the cut and yanked.
How can this match 200 lb spike force from Muggs 15 lb saw?

Both are true. Some reconciling to be done.
 
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I’m usually in a lift that has an open style bucket with bars, so I’m sure it doesn’t apply to some of the buckets you all may be using, but what I will sometimes do is hook the saw to one of the bars using a chainsaw lanyard and / or a webbing sling. Whether the saw stays connected when actually using it is dependent on what setup I’m using, what’s underneath, and what the work is.

Most of my bucket work has been for hedges or pruning where if I need a saw a top handle is enough.
 
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