timber hitch for rigging

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The Timberhitch is as safe or unsafe as any other knot or hitch. It needs to be tied properly, dressed and set.

[/ QUOTE ]
Not so: the hitch is more likely to come untied than other
knots, such as the RB (given that the Bowline is well done,
maybe using a secure extension/version).

[ QUOTE ]
The timber hitch also retains 90% of the rope strength, whereas the running bowline retains around 65% ? (going from memory on the RB strength loss, someone correct me if Im wrong). This would be due to less amount of sharp bends in the line.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't believe this: they are both, essentially, choker
hitches, and it's at the point of contact with the main line
that the knot will break, IMO.

[ QUOTE ]
Ive always thought the TH was the coolest hitch due to its simplicity. I think Im gonna start using it more often.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think that Ashley's recommendation make a full turn (or
more!) around the mainline before dogging/tucking the end
should be done--this will give a sort of friction grip
on the mainline, should improve strength, and also mitigate
loosening when slack or pulling out on hard loading.

*kN*

[/ QUOTE ]




I disagree.
 
I wouldn't put much stock in bombing heavy loads out of trees with a timber hitch. I know of one that failed and let a log crash through a corrugated metal roof into an office. Luckily the secretary whos desk got annihalated was out to lunch. Just because it hasn't happened to someone yet doesn't make it fail proof. Look, with better options like a rb backing a marl or half hitch, it's just retarded to use a timber hitch for this kind of rigging. Would you rather tell yourself before making the cut "it might not hit the house", or "it won't hit the house".
 
[ QUOTE ]
I wouldn't put much stock in bombing heavy loads out of trees with a timber hitch. I know of one that failed and let a log crash through a corrugated metal roof into an office. Luckily the secretary whos desk got annihalated was out to lunch. Just because it hasn't happened to someone yet doesn't make it fail proof. Look, with better options like a rb backing a marl or half hitch, it's just retarded to use a timber hitch for this kind of rigging. Would you rather tell yourself before making the cut "it might not hit the house", or "it won't hit the house".

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed. I wouldn't use it for rigging. Their are other knots out there more suited for the situation.
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
During a recent meeting with a person I highly admire a statement was made: a "knot is either 100% right, or 100% wrong". A sentiment I totally agree with.

[/ QUOTE ]
This is utter rubbish! (It's a paraphrase of Ashley.)
mad.gif

(reminds me of Bush's "with us or against us")

[/ QUOTE ]

It is not rubbish it is a phrase designed to make you think. Similar to "Most trees will fail at a defect in a storm but most trees with defects don't fail in a storm". Similarly, most improperly tied knots get the job done, but when knots fail, it is either from improper use or improper tying. If you choose to use a knot that is not proper for the task or tied and set improperly you'll have to ask yourself "am I feeling lucky today"...well are ya?

[ QUOTE ]
It should be obvious from a moment's reflection that a great
many knots can be seen as such "(not 100% right) = 100% wrong"
knots--e.g., the Cowboy vs. Common Bowline, different only
by which way the end is taken around the mainline in collaring
it (the Cowboy resists pulling apart on ring-loading).
For some common knots (e.g., the Fig.8 eyeknot, also bend),
one cannot usually find any specific tying instruction,
and one can regularly see variances in its tying, done for
decades, and mostly w/o noted difference in behavior.

[ QUOTE ]
The reason there are many different knots is that there are many different situations.

[/ QUOTE ]
But there are many who deal with those situations using only
a KISS small set of knots; and that can be effective, even
if arguably not ideal.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree that most all tree tasks can be accomplished with just a small handful of knots and hitches. But that still misses the point I was trying to make.

[ QUOTE ]
... forces are so great that cambial and bark tissue can become strongly embedded within the knots. If this happens on a running bowline, it can interfer with the ability to untie it. The timberhitch backed up with a marl or half-hitch will never experience that problem.

[/ QUOTE ]
And there's a gem of helpful insight unlikely to be gleaned
from the literature--long live the Net, & The Buzz !

Thanks, Dave,

*kN*

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]



Dave
 
Tell you what guys,

I've never once had a problem using a timber hitch when rigging, been a climber for just over 20 yrs. But thanks to your post's I'm going to reconsider.
 
[ QUOTE ]
I wouldn't put much stock in bombing heavy loads out of trees with a timber hitch. I know of one that failed and let a log crash through a corrugated metal roof into an office. Luckily the secretary whos desk got annihalated was out to lunch. Just because it hasn't happened to someone yet doesn't make it fail proof. Look, with better options like a rb backing a marl or half hitch, it's just retarded to use a timber hitch for this kind of rigging. Would you rather tell yourself before making the cut "it might not hit the house", or "it won't hit the house".

[/ QUOTE ]

Earlier in my career we did tests of a destructive nature on newly developing equipment. Many, many tests that caused failure within the rigging system. Never once did the timber hitch fail in those scenarios.

It's not the hitch, it's how you tie and use it.

Dave
 
[ QUOTE ]
I wouldn't put much stock in bombing heavy loads out of trees with a timber hitch. I know of one that failed and let a log crash through a corrugated metal roof into an office.

[/ QUOTE ]

It didnt fail because it was a timber hitch, it failed because it was improperly tied.
 
[ QUOTE ]
I wouldn't put much stock in bombing heavy loads out of trees with a timber hitch. I know of one that failed and let a log crash through a corrugated metal roof into an office.

[/ QUOTE ]

Cause it was tied and set wrong, a Timber Hitch can not fail if tied and set right. Little trick I was shown you should be able to tie any of the knots you plan to use with your eyes closed. Some where even made to be tied behind your back?
 
Yeah that was a childish stab couldn’t resist :lildevil don’t know if the hitch climber statement was for me or not. It does seem like a good setup. Ive been using the old way for so long just seems a lot easier
 
I agree with the others. If the TH came off or untied it was not setup rite. Ive been using it for a long time and never had any problems
 
PLEASE use the TH correctly. Like I said earlier, mine was tied, dressed and set correctly and I can still hear the slapping sound it made as rolled out with a great big log in it. I've used it a handful of times since but only when I can load it in one direction very slowly. I may be paranoid but I look at it this way. A TH closes but a CHWBH is closed and can be loaded multi-directionally. I was so fortunate no one was crushed
 
And may I interject something? Without pointing fingers, may we please keep our posts "life giving". I know fully well when I say something to someone that is destructive and I know all of you do too. Do I sound like Beavis and Butthead's teacher? What's that hippie's name?
 
SORRY EVERYONE I may not have been clear on my use of a t.h. I was using it to secure a rigging block for lowering and was lowering loads into it wrecking ball style when it failed and the load, block and line fell all together. THAT'S how I was using it wrong.
 
Oh treeclimber , aren't you special , you got to get you all worked up to talk about the timber hitch . Now we're talking about the timber hitch . Wish I could post as treeclimber #1 , what do I have to do to be treeclimber2 ? I can just imagine . Hey Whiz , don't be sorry , the number 1 treeclimber should be sorry because he doesn't know what he's talking about(thinks he does) . I bet you treeclimber #1 learned more from this thread than you did( bet on it) , just read his posts(painfull). He can run circles around me though (yeah), just like he runs more wraps on his timber hitch ( because he don't know), because he is treeclimber #1( because he thinks so ) .Anybody wanna talk about the jackbowline ? didn't think so . We could talk sh*t all day , #1 proved that , the timber hitch has it;s flaws , but it is a very good hitch for rigging .
 
Riggs you are a legend in your own mind!!! Can i be riggs 1a i can ... and i can... and i can .......... ffffasterrrr then youuuu. Wipe the snot bubbles away sissy boy riggs whats the matter nobody let you play in the sandbox when you were a kid riggs ahhh im sorry little man i would have let you play riggs. Keep a stiff upper lip little buddy riggs i know it is hard. Let me try to reason with you here ok are you ready little buddy take a deep breath. we were having a pretty good chat in the post that’s what we are doing now chatting this a post you got it so far riggs i didn’t lose you did i little one? it was about the TH i tie the same as everybody else not as good as you riggs i just use more wraps that’s when you loop around the rope.ok riggs now as far as the jacked bowline i was talking about a variation of a bowline that i tie meaning the same but slightly different riggs and some body else recognized it as the jacked bowline what’s the matter bubble boy you upset because you didn’t think of it. Do not worry riggs your still number one you are the best riggs. Im honored to be chatting with you. As far as the Whiz, let us try not to bring other people into your problems. I have had chats with whiz i know what’s he’s talking about. So do you riggs im sure, because you are the best. I might change my sign to little riggs or riggs 1A. Never mind it is your sandbox little buddy GROW THE F$$$ UP ALREADY. And remember do not inhale the snot bubbles bubble boy.
 
A knot is not either 100% right or wrong, for there are different points to polish, different cases to use different lacings etc., some just being discovered, some change with the type of line etc. Some take longer at more expense of time, effort, material length etc., so might work all the time for a range of use, but not yet be maximum.

TH assumes convex host/spar, that pushes out as line pushes in. the Turns and length are to reduce by frictions, for the final nip to terminate force flow/tension to the other side of the line. The nip is best on oppoiste side of spar than Standing Tension(and also inline with the Standing), for best pinch, and a spot further around for best trapping.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

New threads New posts

Back
Top Bottom