This is the Akimbo

Crazy_Jimmy said:
Doesn't every system slip under heavy loads, even hitches ?
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I'm sure they do. Not every systems slip is consistent or predictable though. I've seen prussics seize and melt under heavy load. That's one reason we use a more dynamic rope in a traditional knot based system. The rope acts as shock absorber to some extent.
 
John_KAYS said:
Kevin can elaborate on this, but with all of the mechanicals, paired with the correct rope/diameter, there is no worry about it slipping and causing panic. The slip Kevin is referring to is the slow gradual stop after a drop, if the device didn't slide to a stop, in a fall scenario, the climber and the TIP would suffer from impact energy. This could do serious damage. Think about when you are rigging and "let it run" to absorb the load and not create a "sudden stop and a lot of shock" situation. So yeah, it is very cool that the device "slips" - Especially if you are on a more static line. On a fast descent with a mechanical you will notice how it has a "slow to stop" characteristic.
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I agree that the slipping is cool. I just want to understand the full nature of it.
 
JMerritt said:
Yes the Akimbo will slip in a dynamic loading scenario. So will most other non toothed mechanicals. Toothed ascenders are designed to slip as well, but they are designed to tear the rope sheath in doing so. The advantage is that the device will absorb and mitigate a dynamic loading event. That's good for the climber and good for the tie in point.
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This is all very easy to say and certainly the realities of tool/rope interface become complex. At what KN is it safe to slip? And for how far? Does it accelerate or decelerate? The Unicender bit clear through two strands of Poison Ivy in one test, zero movement, and took a long slide on a 48 strand 11mm. The Runner slips too soon, perhaps, and this negates some rescue possibilities.
What figures/parameters are you building into your design?
 
I agree that the point of slippage and what rope that point is what would be needed for a system to become compliant for somebody's standards (pick one). As a tree climber with different ropes in use I am happy with slippage at 500lbs. Anything more than that just hurts more and causes more internal damage.
 
SoftBankHawks said:
This is all very easy to say and certainly the realities of tool/rope interface become complex. At what KN is it safe to slip? And for how far? Does it accelerate or decelerate? The Unicender bit clear through two strands of Poison Ivy in one test, zero movement, and took a long slide on a 48 strand 11mm. The Runner slips too soon, perhaps, and this negates some rescue possibilities.
What figures/parameters are you building into your design?
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First off, there is no practical way to test the Akimbo on every rope and on every setting. There are 36 possible settings on the akimbo! I will say that if a dynamic load on a standard arborist line leads to an accelerating slide then that isn't a device I personally would want to use. I know that the standards for toothed ascenders specifies a max distance to stop at certain kn. as far as I know, the Akimbo could be the first CE certified mechanical multicender. That means there really aren't clear standards yet laid out. It's going to be very interesting to test. As far as that goes, it seems the thing to do is to test and document and test again.
 
JMerritt said:
First off, there is no practical way to test the Akimbo on every rope and on every setting. There are 36 possible settings on the akimbo! I will say that if a dynamic load on a standard arborist line leads to an accelerating slide then that isn't a device I personally would want to use. I know that the standards for toothed ascenders specifies a max distance to stop at certain kn. as far as I know, the Akimbo could be the first CE certified mechanical multicender. That means there really aren't clear standards yet laid out. It's going to be very interesting to test. As far as that goes, it seems the thing to do is to test and document and test again.
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Interesting that you will test it to existing EN standards, which one(s) will you use?
Of course, the testing must be continuous and to specified parameters that I am sure you have thought long and hard about. As we work in confined spaces too slippy a device may become painful.
There is no reason for you to test on every rope in every setting, leave that to your fan base!
In my limited experience toothed cams on semi static kernmantle (industrial access) rope give repeatable results, fall distance and peak loading, this is a good thing.

For the Akimbo I would specify a weight and rope and then set it up to begin slipping at a xxxkn. After this do factor .5, 1, 1.5 and 2 drops. With this data you can pin point areas to concentrate on.
 
Wow! This is a beautiful device -- it would be awesome for industrial rope access. I have worked in arboriculture and industrial rope access for quite some time, and was recently thinking about the issues with ascending and descending in both of these industries. I'd like to mention some of these, in the hope that they may one day be a thing of the past!
  1. Friction increases with the longer ropes due to rope weight;
  2. Performance on wet ropes (for example, sudden drops -- may be due to rope sheath bunching) which is very scary if close to the ground. (I very nearly had an intense moment with a park bench once ... I'm talking inches away.)
  3. In particular, for rope access -- which is twin ropes one main and one back-up -- the main line is load-bearing and the back-up line is slack. The elephant in the room is that on a long descent, if the main line should fail, the stretch in the back-up line could cause you to come into contact with the ground or other obstacles. This wouldn't happen if the tension on the ropes was the same. people have suggest using descenders back-to-back ... but there's loads of room to do better than this!
Hey, now that you've designed the ultimate tree climbing device, do you feel like tweaking it for industrial rope access? :)
 
I would like to see how it behaves in a twin rope setup, running two Akimbos back-to-back -- particularly when working out a system for ascending two ropes at the same time. Thinking aloud, I'm not sure if something like two foot ascenders would work?

Also, I'd be curious to see how the Akimbo affects the smoothness of rope transfers ... and then there's the rescue side of things. Could the Akimbo be used for rescue? Would you need to run extra friction for a two-person load? How would it go in hauling set-ups?

I will definitely be keen to buy one when they hit the shelves, as I spend half my time in trees and the other half climbing structures in the rope access industry. It will be great to have a device that not only does both, but removes the need to switch between ascenders and descenders. Really excited.

JMerritt said:
What do you think would need to change to make it work for what you have in mind?
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Honestly, I'm not sure -- once they're released and I can buy one (or four!), I can let you know!
 
IMO you all (investors) have been duped into supporting this tediously slow process. He should have handled all this his self. Didn't he likely MAKE money on the taking in of money for development? This thing is not revolutionary like many would have you believe...The BD Bone is the ground breaker and Gordon did it the right way as far as I can see. Prob not gonna make you win all the climbing contests either...

th.webp
 
treevet said:
IMO you all (investors) have been duped into supporting this tediously slow process. He should have handled all this his self. Didn't he likely MAKE money on the taking in of money for development? This thing is not revolutionary like many would have you believe...The BD Bone is the ground breaker and Gordon did it the right way as far as I can see. Prob not gonna make you win all the climbing contests either...

View attachment 39228
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Somebody's wearing their grumpy britches this morning! (Always, really. Poor attitudes are the biggest problem in our so called modern society) go smoke a bowl @treevet


Reed Wortley
ISA CA# SO-6953A
CTSP # 01739
 
treevet said:
...have been duped into supporting this tediously slow process...
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Clearly, since not all of us have the attention span, and the need for instant gratification, of a five-year-old, we must therefore be complete idiots who were conned by the devious and unethical Mr. Merritt into investing in a Ponzi scheme. We wouldn't have been so easily duped if he didn't have Bigfoot and the Aliens helping him with his get rich quick scheme.

treevet said:
He should have handled all this his self.
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Yes'm boss! He sho' shoulda handled all dis high-tech crap his own self! Because, really, Gordon is just rolling in the big money and meeting the high demand for his product with the efficiency of a well oiled production line.

treevet said:
Didn't he likely MAKE money on the taking in of money for development?
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Ahh... the Trump method of analyzing economic motivation... it's always easier to allude to someone being an unethical cheat than to actually consider that they might have integrity and honorable motivations.

treevet said:
This thing is not revolutionary like many would have you believe...The BD Bone is the ground breaker...
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No doubt that using chain link type construction to produce the needed friction is... wait, the BDB preceeds the ZigZag by how long?

treevet said:
...not gonna make you win all the climbing contests either...
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I know that at 60 years of age, and quite frankly a lousy climber, my only motivation for wanting such a device is all that money and fame I'll have when I win all the national tree climbing competitions because I'll be the only one with a... oh, wait... what if somebody else gets one?

Luckily, I've given up trying to be the biggest jackass or the most full of shit Tree Buzzer... because you'll alway hold the title, @treevet

golden-turd-award-treevet.webp
 
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