The Best Tree Service in AR..............OH Boy

Re: The Best Tree Service in AR..............OH Bo

The guy who taught me how to climb was completely old school. He had climbed for 20 years and never used a lanyard until he used mine. Never used a throw line to set his rope and the ONLY time he used spurs was when he could not throw he rope over the lowest limb. In that case he would spur up, set his rope and remove his spurs. Several tree companies used him because he was the best. He was also one of the smartest people I knew, college degree from prestigious university. An amazing guy....
 
Re: The Best Tree Service in AR..............OH Bo

No, we don't all do it. One handing that is. There's nothing wrong with natural crotch rigging. He did that well and I agree that it was the groundsman who goofed on the shock loading.

If you pick up any chainsaw manual it makes no reference to how they have been designed for one handed use. They make it quite clear that two hands are to be used at all times. But really, what do they know. I didn't see a whole lot of cuts he couldn't have been positioned to use the saw properly, two handed.

Leg protection? In Canada it's mandatory and most climbers wear chainsaw pants all the time, that includes in the tree. Is that nutz? Don't think so. All this gets back to the same thing, what they do affects our cost of doing business in the form of higher insurance and WC rates.

I started old school, used a 026 as my climbing saw and have developed from there. Now its a 200T that's light as a feather. That doesn't make it's bite and less....
 
Re: The Best Tree Service in AR..............OH Bo

Here is another case and point that proves our industry needs regulated in some fashion. We can complain all we want, but there are absolutely no restrictions preventing anyone in most states from doing anything they want concerning tree care. This lack of regulation will always be a black-eye and a fat-lip to our industry until we decide on some form of regulation. Until then, we have no room to complain. We are doing it to ourselves.

BTW, we are due for our TCIA re-accreditation and should have our audit done by the end of November. Is there any interest for a “Buzz” meeting at the expo?
 
Re: The Best Tree Service in AR..............OH Bo

It's enforcement that makes the difference. There are these types of operations in every trade and there will always be a market for them. It's the issue of differentiating from them and the real value of working with the professionals not the hacks.
 
Re: The Best Tree Service in AR..............OH Bo

Lets Face it, all "Bubba" looked like was the typical "gimme a $50 and some beer and you gotta deal!" kind of tree cutter.

Yes, his work was "exciting", yes he sent the parts where he wanted them to go, but was he being professional? Did he demonstrate a commitment to excellence? Does he present himself or the industry as technically skilled, educated and of high quality?

NOPE!, Not once!

If he is the "BEST" of the tree climbers out there and his methods are "Acceptable" then lets bring back the days of surgeons amputating with an axe. Even better, bring back
tooth extractions without anesthesia!

A certain segment of our culture will run to guys like him for tree work. Just like there are still those that will run to the lady with the chicken bones and spit to get medical care.

And another segment looks at our industry and thinks we are all just a bunch of "Bubbas!"

Hacks like this make it easy to differentiate good, safe and efficient work from lazy, careless work. But it also lowers the opinion of much of the market.

For the love of Pete! We all want to see the industry move forward, improve the quality of service and command the appropriate rate of pay.

This whole issue speaks to the idea of "clean cut crews" and why that idea is an important one.

Hey, if Bubba here is "the Best" and is careless about safety, what else is he being careless about?

Enforcement as Humper suggests is important, but educating the consumer and getting the media to do their job properly will go a long way to reducing the need for enforcement.

And as we know from experience with other "enforcement" designed to modify behavior, until there is a fundamental shift in thinking of society there will be sufficient demand to allow the poor behaviour to continue.

So, TMW Keep up the good work, and Yes! we should all call the reporters to task and decry the depictions of such blatantly piss-poor performance within our industry.

How can we ever expect to be taken seriously as an industry if we silently stand by and let "Bubba" represent us?

How can we ever stand before OSHA and tell them to not give us a rectal exam if we don't as a group stand up to, and do something about the "Bubbas?"

If you are not about growth and improvment then you have chosen to rot where you sit.

Some of us need to stop being excuse makers. Some of us need to grow a set and stand up for what is right. Soem of us need to stop "Feeling" and start "thinking."

Friends, it is time to either Lead or follow, but if you can do neither, then get the hell out of the Way!

Damn, there goes that gasket again!
headpop.gif
 
Re: The Best Tree Service in AR..............OH Bo

"Some of us need to stop being excuse makers. Some of us need to grow a set and stand up for what is right. Soem of us need to stop "Feeling" and start "thinking."

Friends, it is time to either Lead or follow, but if you can do neither, then get the hell out of the Way!"

Great speech on election day . Got my vote .
 
Re: The Best Tree Service in AR..............OH Bo

[ QUOTE ]
They make it quite clear that two hands are to be used at all times.

[/ QUOTE ]

very true can't argue this one bit.

[ QUOTE ]
But really, what do they know.

[/ QUOTE ]

They know a ton, hence the reason most saw companies make an over the center handle saws, light in weight, and balanced. Funny how they don't condone the one hand use yet still make the saw desinged for it.

[ QUOTE ]
Leg protection? In Canada it's mandatory and most climbers wear chainsaw pants all the time, that includes in the tree. Is that nutz?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yea, so as they do in Germany, but they all anit dealing with 101 temps either.
 
Re: The Best Tree Service in AR..............OH Bo

[ QUOTE ]

If you pick up any chainsaw manual it makes no reference to how they have been designed for one handed use. They make it quite clear that two hands are to be used at all times. But really, what do they know. I didn't see a whole lot of cuts he couldn't have been positioned to use the saw properly, two handed.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, Echo did a study for some Brit client that covered an acceptable situation for one handing..which is when there's the need to stretch way out sideways and below to reach a cut. One hand on lifeline behind ya for stability, and one reaching out making the cut, way away from all body parts. As well, the cut limb has no chance to contact body parts.

Of course, all the other times when many of us one hand....is for one purpose, production. In many trees, like thickly branched conifers, it is impossible to even come close to the speed and efficiency that is accomplished with using one hand.

The alternative involves a handsaw...which is also a dangerous tool, (its one hand use has resulted in at least one fatality,) or ropes and slings...which are too slow for many applications.

That said, one handed saw use is dangerous, and should never be encouraged or taught. Should it be "outlawed", as it is in the Z? That's debatable.
 
Re: The Best Tree Service in AR..............OH Bo

[ QUOTE ]
They know a ton, hence the reason most saw companies make an over the center handle saws, light in weight, and balanced. Funny how they don't condone the one hand use yet still make the saw designed for it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Designed for balance. If it were designed for one handed use then why incur the cost of putting a second handle on it? One aspect of the design is an ergonomic element the other a safety factor. While Echo did cite a situation that would justify one handed use it's such an extreme one that it may even make more sense to pull out a handsaw.

[ QUOTE ]
Leg protection? In Canada it's mandatory and most climbers wear chainsaw pants all the time, that includes in the tree. Is that nutz?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yea, so as they do in Germany, but they all anit dealing with 101 temps either.

[/ QUOTE ]

Old habits die hard. I'm still wearing chainsaw pants here in hothouse jersey. yeah it was tough when the temp was up there but I'd rather take the time to turn a hose on my head to cool down and safely manage my body temp than run the risk of a nasty chainsaw injury. That is the challenge of operating safely in a multiple risk environment. Think of a firefighter and what they wear in some unbearable heat, doing a physically demanding job. How many of them don't wear their ppe?

As a accident investigator said, it takes a major catastrophe to cause real change to regulations and behaviour. Unfortunately that isn't likely to happen in our industry. A death of a thousand cuts....
 
Re: The Best Tree Service in AR..............OH Bo

Looking at this post there seem to be two types of people here. The first being the one who can't wait to point out others flaws and scorn them for not being the picture perfect model of safety (I'VE BEEN GUILTY OF THIS). The second one is the person who realizes that we are human and indeed make bad decisions(TRYING TO BE MORE LIKE THIS).

Was Bubba's lack of PPE a bad decision or did he not know any better? Who cares. Next week we will have forgotten about this guy and move on to some other guy who made a mistake and jack him around. Why? It seems to me that we are all in agreeance that we should take PPE seriously, but that doesn't mean that all of us all the time adhere to the rules and regs right? Think about that as your going only 5 MPH over the speed limit. I've been guilty of one handing a saw, a quick cut without chaps, or God forbid - some other PPE mistake. Does this make me a hack or "Bubba"? I hope not, Every day I try to make decisions that will get me home safe to my family, but I'm human and make mistakes.

I do agree that the stories editor could have found someone wearing PPE for the story, but my guess is that we would have found fault with something he did.

Hope this makes some sense, but thought I would give my 2cents. Keep your stick on the ice.
 
Re: The Best Tree Service in AR..............OH Bo

There is a HUGE misunderstanding about one handed chain saw use.

Read this from Section 2, and decide how it applies to your operation:

Because of the many specialized procedures utilized during arboricultural operations, it must be emphasized that exceptions to provisions of these standard may be acceptable and that flexibility and/or a decision as to the applicability of these standards to professional operations may be required.

There may be times when one handing could put the climber in less risk of injury than using two hands. Most of the time this isn't the case. A company has to decide what path they are going to take. Safety and production can be on the same path.

More than likely Larry doesn't know the risks he's taking. Does it do any good to hammer on him? Not likely. I didn't when I was taught to climb exactly like him. But I learned safer and more productive methods by reading and being open to change. Maybe Larry and the reporter, or whoever may read the article, will understand that there are safer work methods.

How many people have taken the chance to talk with crews that are not working safe? It takes courage and a good bit of humor or sales skill to approach a crew like Larry's without coming off like a Mr. Knowalmostall.
 
Re: The Best Tree Service in AR..............OH Bo

Well put JMC and Tom.

Hummper you dah man if you want to wear them pants to climb and work all day in, have at it. As for me and any other I work with ONLY NEEDED ON GROUND WHILE RUNNING SAW.
giveup.gif


Let us not forget the rules set from other countries, seeing as both those countries have free med I doubt the WC is much of an issue, as it is the vioce of a whole government keeping med cost down, now if USA had free med You could damn sure bet there would be much more rules inforced on this feild and other high risk jobs as well.

My final word on this is they did the job, no one was hurt, and no damage. And he's been doing it for 19 years, prob twice aslong as some of the so called non hacks that have been hurt or not with us anymore.
 
Re: The Best Tree Service in AR..............OH Bo

Come on guys, point being is that just because some of us always do things a certain way does not mean everyone does.
Ill be the first to say I have been cut on the knee with a 200 and it had nothing to do with one handing. Secondly, I can think of many times that it is acceptable in my book to one hand a climbing saw. What if you are way out and need to hold a limb with you free hand to help stabilize yourself(along with using you lanyard.) I would love to watch some of you work and see if you really never one hand a saw.

MasterBlaster said it best once,"I dont want to spend all day in a tree" and that is how I feel. All my guys and I are safe and use ppe, including chaps, but this crap goes to far. I always have more than one job to do in a day. i always tell my guys to be safe, but move as quick as they can. WE HAVE MORE TO DO!! I move as quick as I can in a tree, while being safe and doing the job all the way right!!!

I just get sick of everytime someone post a vid or anything the first ting some on this website do is tell them what they could have done better, or dog them for some type of tecnique they use. Lets start being a little more positive and praise people more.

And his accent and the way he talked is irrelevant. Some people in the south get annoyed when they hear someone from back east accent. Like"Dumb yankee" so lets just get over that. Anything to do with someones accent or location says nothing of their ignorance or smarts. IMO
 
Re: The Best Tree Service in AR..............OH Bo

When someone is crowned with 'The Best' or any other superlative it is likely that the measuring stick for their qualifications will come out. In Larry's case, the reporter did him a real disservice by hanging that accolade on him. There's no doubt that he's capable of taking down trees. That never came into my view. There are lots of ways that our profession measures 'The Best'. At a minimum, following current safe working practices should be expected. Some where along the line basic work practices will be critiqued too. Natural crotch and half-hitch lowering have their place. But...does that show 'the best' practice? On the continuum of rigging skills those are very basic.

'The Best' climbers will always use basic PPE, helmet, eye and ear protection. No free climbing. Granted, no groundies were seen cutting up any of the tree. Would it be a big jump to assume that they didn't wear leg protection? I've never seen any cutter wearing leg pro and not have on helmet/glasses, etc.

The vid of Larry is what I might have looked like over 25 years ago. When I reminisce about that part of my career I sure don't think that I was the best tree cutter. Good, but certainly not the best.

Find a teachable moment. You never know what sort of success you might have in bringing a positive change to someone's life.

Last week at the Z133 meeting I talked with a friend who had to shut down a tree crew because they weren't following agency regs. My friend took a little time to show the tree company where to access educational materials. The company took that to heart and now has several CAs on staff and has become a poster company for doing things the right way. It takes courage to talk with the Larrys of the world.
 
Re: The Best Tree Service in AR..............OH Bo

IMHO, it's the fact that this was presented by the media as an example of a top notch tree service. It isn't personal, it's merely looking at this and learning from it. Yes, he has made it through the years without major injuries. Guys, people have been hurt doing the things that safety regs dictate that we should avoid doing. NOT everyone has been hurt doing it. Accidents continue to happen whether it's by an act of omission or one of commission (i.e., working around a safety feature, rushing to finish the job, fatigued or any number of other reasons).

When I was in OT at a rehab hospital I saw some really maimed guys who I think, would love to have a second chance to redo what led to their accidents, I know I did. At some point we need to stop defending unsafe practices and drop the anti-reg attitudes. Understand that regulatory bodies are there to serve all the interests of society. It's a balancing act that is not easy.

As for "free med", learn more about it. WC in Canada is covered through premiums paid by employers. When someone is admitted or treated for a work related injury the bill goes to the WC board for payment. Free medical isn't really free. That's paid in part by an Employer Health Tax where there is also a contribution by employees at a certain income level. It is best described as universal health care where everyone has access regardless of income or health.
 
Re: The Best Tree Service in AR..............OH Bo

Just got off of the phone with the owner, Ty, nice guy.

He is just a guy trying to feed his family. He is trying to do things right, and is willing to learn.

He thanked me for my concern and said that his next purchase from Sherrill will be an ANSI Z133.1 -2006. He is also going to try to work on getting his climber to start wearing a helmet.

TMW
 
Re: The Best Tree Service in AR..............OH Bo

Nice, that is heartening to hear that he's open to developing safer practices.

He like all of us is doing the same thing, working to provide for a family. Now he can be more assured that he and his climber will also be able to come home in one piece to that family.
 
Re: The Best Tree Service in AR..............OH Bo

old school is not bad. in fact i think some new school ideas only inhibit what i used to be in the tree. i agree certain aspects of my work and most importantly more of my work has had thier standards raised by the new school way, but seriously this guy didn't sound pretty but the tree appeared to be gotten down safely. a helmet should be worn yes!! free climbing i just stopped after 22 years and basically because my current boss does not like it. dry crotching happens every so often but with decreased regularity. ONE HANDED CHAINSAW USE IS A NECESSARY COMPONENT OF OUR INDUSTRY AND NO ONE HERE HAS HALOS OVER THIER HEADS SO LETS BE FOR REAL. education is key to the advancement of our industry, whether it be graduating the 8th grade or quite frankly anything tree related.
 
Re: The Best Tree Service in AR..............OH Bo

Thanks for the caps, cuttenwolf.....

except some might act a bit like they have halos....

But my crew, and most everyone I know, though, I reckon, are just one handing hacks....

but do we bust out the work? uhhh, is the Pope Catholic?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

New threads New posts

Back
Top Bottom