The Best Tree Service in AR..............OH Boy

Re: The Best Tree Service in AR..............OH Bo

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this has gotten silly. A local newscast of a human interest story (that was probably seen by 10,000 people in Arkansas) generates 4 pages of sniffling, finger pointing, and rhetoric? Letters and phone calls from across the country? Congratulations, Treebuzzers, you've appointed yourselves the Jehovah's Witnesses of tree climbing. Going door-to-door, spreading the good word. And now we're back to bickering over wearing chaps in the tree?


Clearly, you boys are not staying busy enough at work if you have the energy for this nonsense.

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Re: The Best Tree Service in AR..............OH Bo

The best may not be the right term but I still have respect for these old school guys. Its where we all came from and I know I have seen some gear heads that would take all day in that tree and think they really did something. Just remember, nobody's the best. I'm not saying he did it the "right" way but 19 years of doing it his way is working for him.
 
Re: The Best Tree Service in AR..............OH Bo

OMG, what aren't you guys getting in this? It's not about being impressed or using more gear. Its about work practices that are in contradiction with standards in the industry. For me mainly safety related.

I look at my work and critique what i did. Somethings right other things could've been done better. If someone gives me feedback I've got to be open-minded about it.
 
Re: The Best Tree Service in AR..............OH Bo

This thread makes me wantg to write an article about so many things.

The guy seems like a good guy. He does his job and just tries to get home in one piece. Pat on the back for that.

Old school? Why does everyone think this means "no school" or skills? I grew up "old school" and believe that I know as much as the next guy about climbing and rigging. I use "old school" all the time and make money with it safely and in compliance. This is not the issue here.

I also agree that chainsaw protection is not all that bad. I wear one form or another almost all day, everyday. I really believe that it will soon be manditory anyway, so why not get used to it now?

Hollenrich has a good point that it soon starts to spin out of control once eveyone gets started. First pants, then boots, gloves... what's next? Agreed. But, that doesn't mean that some changes (like helmets) are not really for the better. Still, this isn't really the issue either.

Problem for me is the idea that media keeps portraying our industry as not very calculated or skilled. Sorry, but that's what I saw. One thing to remember is that none of us knew what we were doing wrong until someone was kind enough to explain it to us- in a manner that didn't cause us to become defensive and walk away.
 
Re: The Best Tree Service in AR..............OH Bo

Yes, exactly. Now can we get TCIA to start working the media and get professionals demonstrating the standards they are promoting on to shows like, Dirty Jobs or the myriad copies of this???
 
Re: The Best Tree Service in AR..............OH Bo

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Problem for me is the idea that media keeps portraying our industry as not very calculated or skilled. Sorry, but that's what I saw.

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That is exactly what "the media" was NOT doing.
If you listen to the anchors spiel before showing the video, they clearly thought the climber was the cats [bad word].
Potential customers would see it the same way, there was absolutely nothing derogatory in that video, that only started when all the "holier than thou" climbers saw it.

Before you all start screaming at me, yes I wear chainsaw resistant pants All the time, whether on the ground or climbing, it's mandatory here. I wear a helmet, too.

But, for the first 15 years of climbing, I didn't wear one. The helmets we could get over here back then wouldn't stay on your head in a tree, so I used a baseball cap instead.
Those of us that have been in the work for a long time started out that way, then the ppe gear evolved, and so did we.
 
Re: The Best Tree Service in AR..............OH Bo

You are right Stig. What I meant to say was that they are showing a "non-best practice" display of our industry, but they announce as a "best practice" display. That is what I'd like to see changed. I would love to turn on the TV and see one of our peers wearing PPE, performing at a high level on screen and then following it up with useful, insightful information that really shows the public what we are all about.

And for the record, I didn't wear a helmet in the early years either. No one I knew did. And I reiterate, some change is good.
 
Re: The Best Tree Service in AR..............OH Bo

Mark- check out my video of blowdown crane removal I think it's under 90 tonner in crane use. I think I came across as somewhat professional with ppe in place.
There are guys from the crane co. unrigging some stuff without safety glasses which I had no control over.
My SIP's were under my rain pants- So I am pretty sure I was all ppe'd up for the camera.
If you'll excuse me now while I pat myself on the back.
 
Re: The Best Tree Service in AR..............OH Bo

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One thing to remember is that none of us knew what we were doing wrong until someone was kind enough to explain it to us- in a manner that didn't cause us to become defensive and walk away.

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I just thought that that statement was important enough to repeat it.
 
Re: The Best Tree Service in AR..............OH Bo

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OMG, what aren't you guys getting in this? It's not about being impressed or using more gear. Its about work practices that are in contradiction with standards in the industry. For me mainly safety related.

I look at my work and critique what i did. Somethings right other things could've been done better. If someone gives me feedback I've got to be open-minded about it.

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Thank You Treehumper, for getting the point, this is about safety standards, and we all should care what goes on out there, and start changing/training/educating the workers in the industry. I don't care what I have to wear, as long as I go home to my wife and 2 kids at the end of the day I'm good with it, PERIOD.
We have safety standards for a very good reason, time to start enforcing them. Let's look at last month 16 Deaths & 10 Injury accidents in the industry, just for October.
Read the writing on the wall, were dying out there, were getting maimed, who cares you whose the best, damn it "WHOSE THE SAFEST?"
 
Re: The Best Tree Service in AR..............OH Bo

Back when 'Evil Tom' was doing treework I...er...uh...he, yeah, he, wasn't too aware of industry standards or safe work practices. He...ok, I thought it was a big improvement when I stopped wearing baseball caps and changed to a blue/shite striped train engineers cap. The difference is that the bill is just a bit shorter so I had a bit more upper peripheral vision. After walking into clothes poles and low branches I decided to make the change. Some time later I got helmets with hearing protection. But, we'd only wear them when we chipped. And this is after many years of running a 1962 whisper chipper. Duh! Why not wear that gear all of the time? Because I was invulnerable of course.

Then, I started to read trade magazines and attending workshops/conferences. There were some not so nice names being tossed towards the Evil Tom types in the world. I sure didn't like that. At the same time I realized that my work/safety skills were seriously inadequate. Little by little I started to make changes.

The final conversion came when a dear friend of mine, and many others here, was killed doing treework. When I heard that I decided that I would do what I could to interrupt poor professional conduct.

The most important thing that anyone does in the day is to go home walking.

Take the time to reach out to other tree workers and do what you can to improve the safety awareness in our profession. This is a huge challenge.

Today I went through the Experimental Aircraft Association Museum in Oshkosh, WI. There are some really fantastic aircraft there. At lunch I took some time to think about the calculated risks that are accepted by anyone who goes off the ground. While reading about some of the aircraft I could see that each component or practice was analyzed. If the risk can be reduced, it is. Why not adapt this type of thinking in the work that we do?

I think that if the aircraft industry were run by arborists we would have planes falling out of the sky every day. How long would that be tolerated?

Enough rumbling...time for bed :)
 
Re: The Best Tree Service in AR..............OH Bo

Thanks Mahk. I have been thinking about this thread all day. One thing that keeps coming to mind is that we need to be more careful, especially when we are in the public eye like this. I bet you could all find something in my daily work habbits that isn't quite best practice material. Still, we need to try and change each other when given the opportunity.


Minimum PPE should be a given now a days. It is almost 2009 already. At this rate I would have to assume that the majority of tree workers out there wouldn't start wearing chainsaw pants (if ANSI made it mandatory today) until 2034!
 
Re: The Best Tree Service in AR..............OH Bo

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At this rate I would have to assume that the majority of tree workers out there wouldn't start wearing chainsaw pants (if ANSI made it mandatory today) until 2034!

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I still don't get the pants push, prob never will either. But all that want to push it why only wear half, you want to be safe right, then wear the whole suit. Wearing just the pants is like only wearing your safty glasses and no helmet, or vise versa. Really I always say to guys, if you feel that unsafe at doing this job, then move on find something eles to do. Cause most likly your worring about getting hurt is, guess what, going to get you hurt.
 
Re: The Best Tree Service in AR..............OH Bo

Take a look at the distribution map of chain saw cuts.

This came from a US Government study:

Facts and Figures about Chainsaw Injuries

* According to the U.S. Consumer Products Safety Commission there were over 28,500 chain saw injuries in 1999. More than 36% were injuries to the legs and knees.
* The average chainsaw injury requires 110 stitches and the average medical cost was $ 5,600.00 in 1989. Data according to The Davis Garvin Agency, an insurance underwriter specializing in loggers insurance. In year 2000 corresponding costs can be estimated to be over $12,000.00.
* Medical costs for chainsaw injuries based on these facts amount to about 350 million dollars per year.
* Workman's compensation costs, based on the assumption that four weeks recovery is required, can be estimated at 125 million dollars annually.
* Loss of production as well as loss of quality of life for the injured can not be adequately quantified, but may in fact represent the single largest cost.
* There are 69,000 professional loggers in the U.S.. The cost of equipping all of them with one pair of chainsaw chaps at approximately $75.00 each would result in a total annual expense of five million dollars.
* There are few situations where safety has a more immediate payback than in the logging industry.
 

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Re: The Best Tree Service in AR..............OH Bo

Hollen, the chainsaw maintenance and safety instructor wore the whole outfit. He's a logger who teaches on the off season. Didn't preach about it just did it.

Your logic about worrying about an accident though isn't entirely accurate. It's not about feeling unsafe it's about recognizing the risks and mitigating them. I bet Dale Earnhardt Jr. wears the HANS device having witnessed what happened to his dad. How many drivers died to cause the adoption of this device?
 
Re: The Best Tree Service in AR..............OH Bo

Just found this thread, I thought the guy looked like a decent climber.

The cut at 3.30 - the way the stem wobbled, something aint right about that timber. The way the stem oscillated was too rigid looking, the movement went too far down the stem. Done stuff like that before, dont like that movement in a tree.
 
Re: The Best Tree Service in AR..............OH Bo

I think that part of our resentment of this sort of thing in the media comes from the perception that many of us deal with even in our friends and acquaintances- that we're largely very roughly skilled workers and pay little attention to our personal safety.
 
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