Tapered Hinge: Diar(y)rhea of a thread gone wrong and left un-moderated

Use Tapered Hinge against Side Lean?

  • Huh?

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Never

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Hardly

    Votes: 1 3.7%
  • Sometimes

    Votes: 15 55.6%
  • Preferably

    Votes: 7 25.9%
  • Religiously

    Votes: 4 14.8%

  • Total voters
    27
  • Poll closed .
How is it that you managed to overlook that twice????

Clearly you're missing something...

Even after I told you where on the video it was and then transcribed it in writing, and you still came back with "Just watched again... You didn't say squat ... Just a lot of blah blah .."

It's no wonder you're having problems with a dysfunctional mind like that...
I invite you to give peace love and understanding a try... see if that works a little better
Two kids.. I know I’m never going to make any sort of impact on you, and I don’t find your videos all that interesting or informative.
Blah blah blah is all I heard as my eyes glazed over... cool ground anchors.. Are you doing any climbing anymore?
 
I stopped climbing big trees in my early 40s then learned to footlock at 46 and came back and was into 100'+ monsters at 50...

It was 102 degrees for the second tree.. Full sun.. It may never happen again, but hey I'm an optimist!

 
In Daniel's vid the climbibg is so mediocre at best. High TIP over work and fat man is struggling. That is really nothing to film. Basic treework. Man is full of hot air.
 
Understood! Go make some sawdust.... we will be here when you're done (y)


Made lots of sawdust. During falling trees day after day I found myself entertained thinking of this thread, thanks. Boundaries for the well intended contributions will hone the relevance of certain points.

I say that wood fibre characteristics vary in the coupe of the alpine ash (E. delegatensis) I am currently falling. They vary between my coupes also. I say in strong terms that there is great variation within the various hard woods indigenous to my area of logging and further across low altitude species in Victoria. Softwood trees and introduced species have different characteristics again, in some cases different to their country of origin.

Making statements regarding methods that rely on consistent fibres and characteristics to a world stage is a folly.

The readers of this information may in fact have little intuition or feel for tree falling but dangerously take a chunk of information in its raw form. Some of the information is hazardous if applied to my work place. Novelty methods of falling often are very limited in application in general tree work. Fallers are better equipped to consolidate sound core skills first.

There is no doubt that commercial fallers in high production work have something to offer these discussions. An arborist just doesn't do the volume of trees however they do work in the variety often not available to a commercial faller.

Read quite a few posts but not all so forgive me if I missed a vital point.

I use a tapered hinge regularly during my normal course of work. These are full size trees with "free grain" cutting to compression side of the hinge through is not an option and even if I got away with before my saw jammed that the tree would crush down on the compression side and create a further lean or allow it to break off to its natural lean.

I do put a pronounced step to the back cut this seems to enable quite some movement toward the intended direction before the hinge commences to fail. I note a reference to a German finding that it doesn't assist the hinge during a side lean. I need to know the wood, fibre type, step height etc before I accept that information. Looking at the recorded results and methodology is essential. Accepting this as hearsay is not good enough.

Falling trees with the fascination of the hinge holding on for longer may have been devised for a particular situation but in general it is a narrow focus to have. Falling commercially, clean separation from the stump is what we are trying to achieve. When I am felling sections up a tree and the section is small or light I tend to open the scarf up a bit.

As a general concept to retain the top closer to the stump this could be a dangerous practice. If we consider the concept of encouraging the fibres to hang on and we apply this to species renown to tear down we may in fact be creating a serious safety issue for the climber. I would consider other options if possible and encourage those acquiring experience the same.

I saw also a method to back release a heavy leaner with the notion that the saw couldn't be taken with the tree. This is quite wrong if it were to be applied in my place of work. The free grained timber I fall here will try to take that saw nearly every time. Despite high speed, gentle cutting the rupturing fibres upon the explosive departure will separate along the chain and bend it if not take the saw. It might work for some in their places of work but expect some well founded disagreement on the world stage of tree buzz.

Regards
Graeme
 
Made lots of sawdust. During falling trees day after day I found myself entertained thinking of this thread, thanks. Boundaries for the well intended contributions will hone the relevance of certain points.

I say that wood fibre characteristics vary in the coupe of the alpine ash (E. delegatensis) I am currently falling. They vary between my coupes also. I say in strong terms that there is great variation within the various hard woods indigenous to my area of logging and further across low altitude species in Victoria. Softwood trees and introduced species have different characteristics again, in some cases different to their country of origin.

Making statements regarding methods that rely on consistent fibres and characteristics to a world stage is a folly.

The readers of this information may in fact have little intuition or feel for tree falling but dangerously take a chunk of information in its raw form. Some of the information is hazardous if applied to my work place. Novelty methods of falling often are very limited in application in general tree work. Fallers are better equipped to consolidate sound core skills first.

There is no doubt that commercial fallers in high production work have something to offer these discussions. An arborist just doesn't do the volume of trees however they do work in the variety often not available to a commercial faller.

Read quite a few posts but not all so forgive me if I missed a vital point.

I use a tapered hinge regularly during my normal course of work. These are full size trees with "free grain" cutting to compression side of the hinge through is not an option and even if I got away with before my saw jammed that the tree would crush down on the compression side and create a further lean or allow it to break off to its natural lean.

I do put a pronounced step to the back cut this seems to enable quite some movement toward the intended direction before the hinge commences to fail. I note a reference to a German finding that it doesn't assist the hinge during a side lean. I need to know the wood, fibre type, step height etc before I accept that information. Looking at the recorded results and methodology is essential. Accepting this as hearsay is not good enough.

Falling trees with the fascination of the hinge holding on for longer may have been devised for a particular situation but in general it is a narrow focus to have. Falling commercially, clean separation from the stump is what we are trying to achieve. When I am felling sections up a tree and the section is small or light I tend to open the scarf up a bit.

As a general concept to retain the top closer to the stump this could be a dangerous practice. If we consider the concept of encouraging the fibres to hang on and we apply this to species renown to tear down we may in fact be creating a serious safety issue for the climber. I would consider other options if possible and encourage those acquiring experience the same.

I saw also a method to back release a heavy leaner with the notion that the saw couldn't be taken with the tree. This is quite wrong if it were to be applied in my place of work. The free grained timber I fall here will try to take that saw nearly every time. Despite high speed, gentle cutting the rupturing fibres upon the explosive departure will separate along the chain and bend it if not take the saw. It might work for some in their places of work but expect some well founded disagreement on the world stage of tree buzz.

Regards
Graeme
Damn good post. Thanks
 
Graeme, thanks for taking the time to share your experiences here with us. And I for one would love to hear more and see some pictures demonstrating some of these thoughts. No pressure of course.

I like this statement a lot:
"I use a tapered hinge regularly during my normal course of work. These are full size trees with "free grain" cutting to compression side of the hinge through is not an option and even if I got away with before my saw jammed that the tree would crush down on the compression side and create a further lean or allow it to break off to its natural lean. " Very easy for even newbies to understand I think.
 
Yes. Thanks for the input Graeme.. nice to hear from someone of your experience (you're work is awesome!!)

And Mark, if you managed to read this whole thread, all the pics of the swing dutchman I post are of relatively small diameter trees... It only makes sense that anything with a lot of mass would compress the heavy side of the tree if you tried a swing dutch. I never really thought about it consciously before all the back and forth on this thread.

One of the things I got clear on is that the bigger the tree, the less help you can count on from a tapered hinge, especially when using wedges and no pull line. With a high pull line, you can leave a wider hinge which has much more holding ability to fight the side lean. In that case (always the case for me) using the tapered hinge makes sense in that it helps throw everything to your advantage..

@Tony ... do me a favor and tell Graeme his use of the TH is pure B.S. Man up!
 
I would like to personally thank Mr. McMahon for sharing his thoughts here. It’s much appreciated on my part.

Its no surprised that he feels cutting ones hinge when using a tapered hinges is a bad idea, or encouraging a top/log to come back towards/behind the stump is a “dangerous practice”.
My hope is that you Daniel will actually listen to someone with the stature of Mr. McMahon. So instead of attacking Tony, it seems that maybe it is you that needs to man the fuck up, and finally stop posting vids and pics of your dangerous, unproven, unreliable methods.
 
But tapering is cool sometimes as long as you don’t cut all the way through either side of the hinge?
 
You got it Jem. It can be a very useful tool if used properly, but if you cut your uphill hinge on a TH, then you have essentially defeated the whole purpose of the cut. If you cut your downside hinge you have now created a space which can close and pull your uphill fibers, again negating the purpose of a TH
When working around valuables I will always go with a tag line to get the weight of my wood into my intended a lay, but that’s just me.
 
The big lesson here is think before posting ‘advanced techniques’ to two audiences. One, the General public who might be dumb enough to try some short of very situational potentially sketchy cuts. And the second audience, highly skilled professionals who know better and will call BS.
For one who speaks so much of karma, I’d be more careful of my instructions on the inter webs..

I have more than one trick up my sleeve, but I’d be damned if I posted a ‘how to’ or other gluttony.

Surprised to think there could have been consequences that you didn’t consider until just now?!
 

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