step cut

NO thunb wrap Jamin?

tis tis... you should tuck tail and beg everyone's apology for putting out such a poor example. its an unsafe technique, and you are bound to get some rookie hurt by trying to immitate your risky show off stunts..

HA HA..

just pointing out to the safety police that they missed that in my videos too.. bad habit on my part.. I try to remember, but some old bad habits just don't go away easy...

You all are in some fantasy world thinking that the step cut is somehow flawed for causing more turf impact...

There isn't really much advantage to the step cut when cutting from a bucket. The only time that is going to be needed is when for whatever reaon you need to put a wide open face in a big top, and are worried about the top therefore over-rotating, and the but kicking back past the trunk, and smashing the truck.

As I said, I was just using it to allow me some time to get back for a better camera angle. It could be useful in a situation where a climber wants to descend and leave the drop zone before calling for the pull. (ie like when there is some question about the structural integrity of the roots or base) I've used it, and tied a pull line on the future remaining spar before descending, which allows taking a tree in two cuts from safe distance. Its a lot stronger than you'd think if you haven't used it. You have to experimnet with it. the strength dpends on species, daimeter and distance between the bypass.

But those are going to be such rare occasions. The real benefit of this cut is that it allows one to make the notch above the root flare, becasue the grain in that wood is much more trustworthy, and at the same time only have to handle half the round from the flush cut.
 
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As I said, I was just using it to allow me some time to get back for a better camera angle.

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Wait, you took a video of a special cut... because the special cut gives you a better camera angle... to shoot video?
 
now you're catching on.. I know you're not as slow as you come off all the time Chip...
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As I said, I was just using it to allow me some time to get back for a better camera angle.

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Wait, you took a video of a special cut... because the special cut gives you a better camera angle... to shoot video?

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Lmao!!! Duh, Chip! Why else would you use this "special cut"?
 
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It could be useful in a situation where a climber wants to descend and leave the drop zone before calling for the pull. (ie like when there is some question about the structural integrity of the roots or base)

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Oh yeah, you can use it in this situation too...
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What is on your wrist? Does that thing read wind speed?
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Or is it some kind of solar energy collector for your camera?

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Seems to be the start and stop buttons to his helmet cam...

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Bingo!
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you need to put a wide open face in a big top, and are worried about the top therefore over-rotating, and the but kicking back past the trunk,

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I can't see how this cut has any effect on the top coming back or rotating.
All the cuts are lower than the apex which won't stop the top from coming back, you need stump shot for that making your back cut higher than the apex.
If the top can come back it's probably due to the top hitting something as it's coming over in which case it shouldn't have been cut that way in the first place.

Once the hinge is broken the top can rotate regardless of what cuts were used to drop the top.
Those steps cuts are useful for bucking a log on the ground with slope to stop any log rolling but that's about it.
 
Kevin,
You don't get it..
It doesn't change the motion of the top in any way. The top is going to go the way the notch and plunged back cut take it, regardless of how the back release cut is made. The step allows the climber or bucket truck to be removed from the area before calling for the pull. The step creates a fuse, that will not be tripped until the pull, making the descent and removal of the truck safer.
 
No, I get it.
You are leaving your truck under a compromised top while you drop down in the bucket below the compromised top then move your truck.
You and your truck are at risk until you can get out of the bucket, in the drivers seat and move the truck.
You might get away with it several times but even if it fails once in a hundred it isn't worth it.
Now if you have a hundred arborists adopt this technique then you have just increased those odds.
It's a dangerous idea.
If you are to continue with this method I can only suggest you use multiple guys on the top until you and your truck are clear.
 
Re: shlep cut

Agreed Kevin this is not just laziness or crazy it's dangerous in a big way. A vertical split has NO holding strength. How couldn't you figure this out Daniel? Haven't you split firewood?
 
Re: shlep cut

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[...] A vertical split has NO holding strength. How could'nt you figure this out Daniel? Have'nt you split firewood?

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Even un-severed fiber will break depending on species and geometry. If you don't believe me, ask Guy Meilleur.

I watched him get utterly ragdolled when a pretty long stick of black gum with nothing but a face cut went early. He'd JUST pulled his rope down after making the face and retied when it broke without warning, not even a little pop.

The piece was so long that the run was only 5' or 10' before I had to stop it plus it was on a natural crotch... he went flying completely off the tree and stuff was swinging everywhere for 3 big oscillations before he could do anything. It looked scary as hell but he was pretty circumspect about it... if not sore as hell for a few days.

I'd rather be up there where the top will very soon, not be, rather than on the ground where it's headed. If I was that concerned about the primary tree structure that pulling a top off with a regular topping cut could make the tree fail... I would never go up to begin with.

No tree is worth that. I don't want to be guessing about a primary structural failure, particularly since I've already pushed my luck in that area once... I don't think climbers usually survive tree failures.

If I was worried about the top coming back on me, I'd climb higher and take a smaller piece so as to miss any interferences but I'd still use a regular topping cut with some stump shot. Dirt simple, tried and true. Even a non- genius like me can do it.
 
Re: shlep cut

As I said earlier, its very rare to use this cut aloft. Probably shouldn't have even shown it. More controversy than its worth.

I do use it regularly for falling cuts. removed a big tulip today.. videod the drop. it was a great example. close up of the notch and backcut during the fall, and then the final cut and disposal of the half round. Hopefully it turned out OK. I'll get it uploaded asap.


That said, I've used the step aloft 4 or more times.. all back-leaners... I wouldn't feel too good putting my life at risk, should the step fail. With a backleaner, its not going to go until pulled. I trust my life to that.
 
Re: shlep cut

" I've used it once to pull a large backleaning top into the only possible drop zone, which was right where the bucket was parked..."

I have to say that being in the drop zone of of large tree top that the stem has been severely compromised by a step cut is very risky and dangerous. And that's not even considering that it has a lean... You, your crew, equipment, HO property, landscape are at risk. Why take the chance that it may fail? Do you feel safe underneath that tree top? How about the crew? The alternatives are really unacceptable for safe tree work. What if the wind kicked up, caught the canopy and tripped the cut? Just one possible scenario. (especially on a tree like that White Pine in the video next to the house)


"That said, I've used the step aloft 4 or more times.. all back-leaners... I wouldn't feel too good putting my life at risk, should the step fail. With a backleaner, its not going to go until pulled. I trust my life to that. "


How do you know that it's not going until pulled? Add the lean and weight distribution.......wind?....gravity? some defect you didn't notice? Some mis-calculation. Its being held by vertical fibers, not the strong point of wood. I could never trust my life to that.
 
In the interest of saying something possibly helpful to some people...

Somewhere along the way, someone taught me to tie my running bowline on the back side of the spar and run it over the top. When the stem flops, the knot is not beneath the log.

By running the rope over the top of the spar, you gain maximum leverage (longer moment arm).

Also, pulling from a higher angle with the bucket would increase the horizontal force on the stem, with less counter-productive vertical component (reduced the force on the rope for the same useful horizontal force).

The bucket might shield the operator to some degree from a broken rope recoil if there is no front to the cage on the machine.

Maybe a cable log choker and/ or heavy duty chain would be better when pulling with a machine. If you need to drag the log a bit or a long way, you are ready to go, without damaging the pull rope.

If the machine was pulling from across the street, there would be again a gain of useful horizontal force, for the same rope strain. Any amount of lowering the rope angle will help.

To you visualize what I mean, imagine a worst case scenario where your line angle relative to horizontal was 80+ degrees, most of the strain on the rope, would be trying to compress the wood, not pull it over. If you were 100 feet away from the spar, you would have most all of your force directed horizontally, performing effective work.
 
That looked like good info for all to me... didn't seem aimed particularly at you Daniel. He's just discussing line angles and stuff which are relevant to pulling.

If you took a moment to actually READ... with thought and comprehension... you would learn that all these folks who are supposedly hating on you... aren't. ...well maybe NOW they are because you went off on'em but nobody was trying to single you out when you first got here, you were as welcome and accepted here as anybody.

Pay attention and you may find that people here aren't trying to screw you over, but we expect and deserve the same respect and dignity as anyone else and an outsize ego respects nothing but itself... your ego doesn't even respect YOU. You have to use your intelligence to recognize it and get a frikkin's leash on it It's part of growing up.

If you wanna be a narcissist and an alpha dog? That's different and you're gonna need better chops. (Was that a good pun, or WHAT?!!)
 
the (s) in lectures means I was talking about Dmills' reply as well and actually more so than Sean's..

That said, Sean's suggestions are about as useful as telling someone where to put the gas and oil in a saw. ie. that is the only tree I can remeber pulling over on video without lacing the pull line over the top of the spar. And FYI Stephen, the reason for that is becasue I was originally planning on taking the spar another way onto the lawn, but changed my mind because the log pick up was so much easier by taking it to the street.

In this case line angle was not nearly so much a limiting effect as the height of the pull line, which would have been low with or without lacing over the top.
 
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