SRT from an od head ...

I like ALL of that. But what I don't like is re doing ANYTHING. If I put a log in the truck and it rolls off on the ground arrrrgh...I hate re doing that. And if you work redirects and have to retrace to regain your high central TIP then argh and if you have set a running bolen or the like as a canopy anchor (TIP) and when you are on the bottom branch and you have to go back up and release it arggh again. But if you can sprinkle fairy dust in the air and presto the canopy anchor comes down to the ground and you don't have to suffer another line that's only purpose is to pull down the anchor and is a nuisance all the time....back to double arrgh again.
That my good sir is pure entertainment. Thank you. I'll try and score us some of that fairy dust. If not, I will settle for that crazy newfangled second (not life support) line to pull down the anchor. I agree, it sounds like redoing things...but is that not how "double" rope technique actually works...doing twice the movement to pretend you are saving energy/time?

If I had not been already clearly told by Riggs that he was in fact not a troll, and did not like being accused as one...I'd think this was another trolling by him. Clearly he is not a troll, at this point is he mildly mis informed? Enquiring minds want to know...

Sorry, I forgot to say I do love you guys!
 
I do have to go back up to the redirect if I need to go to the other side of the tree. That's so easy srt. Just kick on the ascender and pop back up to the redirect. Easy-peasy.
Leaving a little pony tail drooped over the other side will allow you to pull line back through redi without going back up to it. Just don't lose your tail.
 
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Leaving a little pony tail drooped over the other side will allow you to pull line back through redi without going back up to it. Just don't lose your tail.
Little pony Jedi what? Pics please, or maybe a vid where you flick some fab hair around and/or maybe dance around to you fav song. No dis, just calling what's in these days. Love ya.
 
I would like to tack on to Steve's explanation:

I personally like all the different options for climbing like some like their different tools. I don't think one is better than another, but one will always be best for a particular scenario. I love ddrt when I think it suits the climb, just like I'll switch between basal anchor and top anchor depending on my work plan.

Contrasting climbing styles, especially when guys start saying srt is better in every way, is like telling someone to throw out their box wrenches because someone invented the socket wrench. I am glad to know ddrt and srt, and to know old school closed systems and self tending body thrust tricks without hardware. Throwing one out for another keeps us from gleaning riches from the past. Really, what people could do without hardware and manufacturing is genius. If we forget those things, we lose a leg up on the next step toward the future.
*stepping off of my soapbox*
 
The planning of redirects may be viewed as time consuming but the increased safety provided to avoid a hard swing by having a better angle at your overhead tie in point not only gets the climber in better work positioning to make cuts but it decreases the pressure on your back when needing to get out on long limbs.
 
Keep the high central (to your work) TIP and take up a 2nd shorter line for a 2nd crotch/tip with a zig zag on it (ddrt) for that purpose...you have the best of both worlds...and like the 2nd line advocated to pull down the canopy anchor, you have 2 lines to deal with. Some may say do the 2nd tie in with the tail of your main climbing line...then you have a loop of line anchored on both ends to catch all kinds of cut material and to get hung up on stubs etc. :-(
 
If your doing a removal with a canopy anchor chances are you don't need that perfect redirect to get out on tips but base tying while pruning and utilizing the redirects saves bringing up that extra line that may or may not be long enough and also carrying the length of rope and managing two systems can be cumbersome. Base tying for a removal usually is a means to get to your final suspension point where the climber then will switch to a canopy anchor.
 
Keep the high central (to your work) TIP and take up a 2nd shorter line for a 2nd crotch/tip with a zig zag on it (ddrt) for that purpose...you have the best of both worlds...and like the 2nd line advocated to pull down the canopy anchor, you have 2 lines to deal with. Some may say do the 2nd tie in with the tail of your main climbing line...then you have a loop of line anchored on both ends to catch all kinds of cut material and to get hung up on stubs etc. :-(
Hasn't been a problem to work off the tail. Don't leave stubs and it's basically just for better work positioning. I see your point just haven't had that problem. Thought you didn't want 2 lines in the tree? I do the same with one line. In the end we will all do it the way we feel most comfortable and feel most productive. Far be it for me to try to tell you otherwise. I bow to your years of experience. I just like what I like. It's been a fun chat though. Would be more fun in person though. I'd love to work and learn from someone such as yourself. Well as long as you didn't go full retard on me.
 
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You sir are a gotdamn naishunal trayshur!
 
I only have to move one leg of my line. The one that hangs for retrieval just sits there and looks pretty. I tend to not chainsaw cut close to my lines so cutting the line isn't any more of an issue for me srt than dDrt. Seems no matter how you climb you should be able to position yourself to make a safe controlled cut. Yes I one hand a saw all day long so I'm not that guy who says he can always get in perfect position to make a textbook cut. I just don't see cutting my line anymore so than other methods.

Retrieval with redirects :Haven't had difficulties personally. If I do, the foreman is 300 lbs.

I still have that central tip way up. The benefit for me is being able to redirect that tip to drop down into areas rather than super long limb walks. I can go above the limb where my angle isn't so bad and redirect through a branch then drop down to my target and walk out further with a better angle. Good for us not so graceful fellas. I do have to go back up to the redirect if I need to go to the other side of the tree. That's so easy srt. Just kick on the ascender and pop back up to the redirect. Easy-peasy. Has made my plan a little more strategic in working the canopy. Try to get everywhere I can and chase as few redirects as possible. It is really much easier for me and I had the ddrt and body thrusting system working so well for me. The anchor bridge system made life so much better but the fact remains, for me, ascending up a single line away from the trunk in mid air is so much easier than body thrusting mid air or footlocking the tail.


So the great thing about a td with an canopy tie is that I don't flipline up stuff. I have a canopy tip and a chest teather for the rr/bone and an ascender on my gaff. I just walk up the tree hand over hand and foot over foot. No flipping, no moving stuff around to always stay tied in climbing around branches and through crotches. If I slip, I am instantly caught with no drop. The spike ascender keeps my line taught were the teather advances my mechanical device the way it was designed. Everything passes the whistle test. As far a blocking down, even better. So I had always been taught to always stay double tied when blocking down. Ddrt always presented a challenge there unless you used a contraption/friction saver/ ring to ring prussic/left staubs. I was always taught don't hang your life off a bowline so with the cinch anchor srt delta link set up, problem solved. I leave a tail the length of the wood I want to send down. Boss says send them 16' I leave 16' of tail below the alpine butterfly. Buzz down 16' and pull the retrieval end. The line falls down to me and I snug it back up and make the cut. Do it again. Now sometimes i'll have to untie and retie the alpine depending on how the retrieval went but if I keep the stick clean it should slide rite down to me.

I'm sure not gonna try to sell you on this or change your mind. Just answering questions. I doubted it and rode around with srt stuff in the box for over a year until I said I am gonna really do this, every climb, until I could get good enough to make a decision on style. It just works. I'm about a year or so behind all the guys on here. I see something new and I watch it and learn for a while before I jump on that ship. The doubled rope thing is pretty interesting to me now. Haven't tried but who knows.

I suppose it's like if I were to buy a wraptor. I've only been on one once. It was awesome and all but it's a lot of money just to get up a tree. Then I have to switch systems, then lower it to the ground, set up takes time, blah blah blah rite? Some of the same arguments for any change in climbing style. It works for me, its the way I'm used to ect..... don't have time to mess around and practice when the boss is up my tail........

Then I get one, the best thing ever, the cats ass, the bees knees, saves me so much time, so much energy, increase productivity. I can almost hear "I've been climbing 45 years and I can out produce all these young boys with their fancy gear" BECAUSE you're working smarter. There comes a time when we are getting older and we realize its not about how much you did in a day but how can I do what I do smarter, more efficiently, and without feeling like your gotten your tail kicked all day. The old bull young bull analogy.

My point being, this is MY work smarter not harder. Let those young boys work their tails off. I can do what they do and more, sweating less and i'll be doing this longer (hopefully). Believe me I want a wraptor. That is the ultimate career longevity tool for the climber. If I get one I'm sure i'll say the same thing about it as srt. Man I wish I had worked this way a long time ago.

Not trying to sell you treevet. You sound like you've had as many years in the trees as my brother. I try to talk climbing with him and he tells me he has know idea what I'm talking about. He stopped climbing long ago and was very old school in Kentucky. So I get it and if it works for you after 45 years in your career, if it works, why change? I get it. Again just answering questions. Trying to help as those before have helped me.

I'm no bad ass but my OLD ass is at the fire station today resting from my tree work days. :)))

First, just wanted to say thanks for the really great and thorough post. Questions to follow in additional posts.

Tim
 
I still have that central tip way up. The benefit for me is being able to redirect that tip to drop down into areas rather than super long limb walks. I can go above the limb where my angle isn't so bad and redirect through a branch then drop down to my target and walk out further with a better angle. Good for us not so graceful fellas. I do have to go back up to the redirect if I need to go to the other side of the tree. That's so easy srt. Just kick on the ascender and pop back up to the redirect. Easy-peasy.

Steve, this is something I'm thinking of trying in the near future. When I picture it in my mind, however, I see how it might be difficult to climb back up and through a smallish crotch. I was thinking of using a sling and biner to stay outside of the crotch, and the tail of the rope to control the swing back to the stem. This would give me the better rope angle you are talking about without the fight to get back through a small crotch.

I guess my question is whether you have used this technique a lot already and find my concern about being able to get back up and through a small crotch unwarranted.

Thanks for your post, and any answers you choose to give.

Tim
 

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