Show off them splices

[Brocky]

It sounds to me that too much was removed during the tapering if the cover is easy to pass back and forth over the crossover.

There are numerous varies of putting on the frapping turns. As long as there are enough stitches connecting the cover to the core,you're good to go.

 

[ARLO]

I have a hook in a beam in my garage that I use to test my splices. I hang from them and bounce around a bit then look them over. If they still look right and feel right, I climb on them.

I also have an eye bolt in the ceiling in the garage that I use for experimenting with all kinds of stuff, especially in winter when I don't want to get too far from the woodstove. The thing I want to point out to new folks is that you should always wear your helmet when testing gear like this. If something lets go there is a good chance that you are going to land hard and crack your head on a concrete floor. That would be an embarrassing way to kill yourself.

 

[JeffGu]

Yes, if you can't engineer a laminated beam and support posts that can support a V-8 engine, then you might want to consult someone who can. If you're testing things that are likely to break or fail, then I recommend you consider the landing site. I've found that an old twin size mattress, even if it smells like a wet dog because it's their "fluffy bed", works very well. The smell is incentive enough to keep you thinking of the consequences.

 

[JeffGu]

It sounds to me...

Thanks, @Brocky... that makes sense, but I'm terrible at remembering what goes wrong with a splice. I tend to only remember the ones I get right. I wanted to do a study on the relationship between bad splicing and alcohol consumption. Three days into the study, I forgot what I was doing and went looking for some Advil and a soft spot to pass out.

 

[Jimmycrackcorn]

It sounds to me that too much was removed during the tapering if the cover is easy to pass back and forth over the crossover.

There are numerous varies of putting on the frapping turns. As long as there are enough stitches connecting the cover to the core,you're good to go.

Ok i think that makes sense..
So the answer to the question is "No"? Your not supposed to be able easily back your eye out by milking eye & throat down & pulling up on x-over side.

On the one I'm referencing (large eye, few days ago). It does make sense.. as...

- I did take a little more then usual out of the buried cover.

- I did some core removal 4 strands of 4, 1 fid back from end of core tail (before original bury step in NEropes instruction)

- After core tail with 4x4 removal was buried, i did a long super heavy taper on it before sucking it in

-Screwed up the measure on mark D, about 4-6in further down then it's supposed to be.

The end result is, it's super easy to run it home & some how there is always slack in the eye no matter how many times you pinch x-over, milk & snap the line, during final bury. I'm glad i chose to cut it off.

Basically.. i screwed it up trying to make it easier to bury, its just too slim.. i took the tricks I've seen & read about too far..

Here a recap of the Tachyon eyes I've done in case anyone following thread is getting confused..

First-
Eye with Ring.. followed directions correctly, just didn't know basics of which direction to milk slack & when. Real messy x-over. Ended up using hydraulic ram to bury. Super rock hard bury... Don't think even super man himself could back the core out..

Second-
Supposed to be 8in eye.. way to much removal & taper, mark "d" off by 4-6in. Super easy to un-bury.. TRASH

Third-
Super tight eye. Very minimal core removal (4-6 individual strands), normal core taper, normal cover taper, sewn x-over.. I'm pretty sure everything went ok. No hydro needed, can't really get good enough purchase with fingers to see if i can back it out, but i think it's ok.. as long as there isn't such a thing as too tight of an eye. It's that tight on purpose. Not accident.

I will use first for something, just don't know what. The second is trash. The third i will use for a short flipline or something towards that nature.

I think my next one should be trust worthy for life support, knock on wood. Just being cautious here..



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[ARLO]

Somebody mentioned Worthhaug. Where has he been? I have not been checking in regularly for a while.

 

[Jimmycrackcorn]

I've kinda peeked around for an answer to this but I'm not really just getting allot of generic info..

With a 16 strand e2e
... what's the shortest cover bury & crossover i can safley do without restoring to removing the entire core & using the two cover lengths for a x-over that cross in the middle, which would require using a ton of rope. (Full length e2e plus length of xover added to both sides)

In other words I'm sure there's a certain point at which its useful not to remove the entire core length in order to not burn through double the length of rope.

I just heard the shortest you could go was 18in total e2e length. Which would be crazy short.

Thanks for any insight.


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[Brocky]

The top drawing is the shortest if you follow samsons directions and remove all the core. If you used the core, it would add another 11" to the length.
The bottom picture is how an 18" might be laid out, only testing would determine if it would hold.

 

[Jimmycrackcorn]

I'm not seeing any pictures.. or are these all in the Samson 16 strand pdf?

 

[Brocky]

Tried another way for the picture

 

[ARLO]

This is the shortest one I have done in 16-strand. It is 24". It has been a while since I made it and it has been climbed on quite a bit with no sign of slippage. The overlap of cover tails was about 9 ".

 

[Jimmycrackcorn]

Tried another way for the picture

Nice.. thanks man..

So.. you know i won't be content until i question that..[emoji6]

Taking the principle of short buries being ok for the 18" e2e.. even without the core in there.. Why can't we take that same 7" & 4" bury & apply it to longer e2e's? But leaving the core in the center of the length to not have to use as much rope up...

Like this..

Like a traditional eye with the cover tail & tapered core x-over.. leaving the core in would make it so you don't need to gobble up so much rope. I'm not trying to be cheap, I just feel the 16 strand splices use a ton of rope & if 7 & 4 is ok without a core, why not with a core on a longer length?

Also, id really like to know just how much strength you lose removing the core.. i know it's cover dependant but those core strands are pretty damn strong. Try breaking one by hand. Even though they aren't connected in a splice, when the rope cinches down on them & finger traps them, it has to add strength.. or maybe i have no clue what I'm talking about.



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[Brocky]

The 18" that you read about probably wasn't made using the measurements of 4" and 7", but more than likely a crossover from end to end. The two cover tails tapering and crossing each other almost the entire length.

I'm guessing when you take the core out to make a splice, it no longer adds much, if any strength to the rope. It is only being squeezed by the cover. If you had tied, or sewn eyes it would add strength.

 

[Jimmycrackcorn]

The 18" that you read about probably wasn't made using the measurements of 4" and 7", but more than likely a crossover from end to end. The two cover tails tapering and crossing each other almost the entire length.

I'm guessing when you take the core out to make a splice, it no longer adds much, if any strength to the rope. It is only being squeezed by the cover. If you had tied, or sewn eyes it would add strength.

Tied or sewn.. ok i gotchya.. e squeezing of it doesn't do much for it then..

So that 7 & 4 thing... I'm actually in the middle of trying it right now.. not climbing in it or anything like that.. i just had a scrap dead eye i cut off the other day cuz i didn't like how the crossover felt.. wasnt perfect enough i guess..

Either way.. the original dead eye side is buried to spec, i removed all the core & now I'm doing the other end with the 7 & 4.. maybe I'll go a bit deeper with the bury after hearing you mention how that 18in was probably made.

I don't realistically plan on using this one for anything but more than an experiment.. hope no one reading uses that as some legit spec.

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[ARLO]

My understanding of the reason that Samson recommends a minimum 11" overlap of the core and cover in a standard 16-strand splice is to insure that the cover strands won't pull out of the bury when subjected to a load. So, if you do a short eye & eye friction saver in which the cover tails overlap by less than 11", the splice is probably going to be weaker than it would be if you followed the Samson directions. I think when you start talking about a total bury length of only 12-14" and a total overlap of only 4-7" you are pushing the envelope on what is safe for 16-strand rope. I thought I was pushing the limits when I did a 24" version with 9" overlap of the tails! If you do an even shorter version my suggestion would be to have Richard or the folks at Treestuff break your splice so we can all learn something from the experience.

 

[Jimmycrackcorn]

So.. i moved the eye up a bit to give me a longer tail to bury & cross.. i only had so much to work with & be able have a usable length tool in the end..

I basically started the eye a couple inches behind where the other x-over ended. The other emd had a traditional 16 strand bury & x-over. It just wasn't very long after that..

So in the end, I'm going to end up with something like a 12-15" x-over.. I forget what i measured.. I'll know in a minute once i smooth it all out to mark the tails.

I could send it to Richard.. i have a package i forgot to send him yesterday & was going to send it later today.. but I'm not sure if the post is open..

What i was going to do was see what happened on the ram i have here.. No readouts or anything but I'll know if it breaks early..

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[ARLO]

So.. i moved the eye up a bit to give me a longer tail to bury & cross.. i only had so much to work with & be able have a usable length tool in the end..


Test it in the basket hitch configuration - that is how it would be used and would be the most realistic way to do it.

 

[Jimmycrackcorn]

Yeah but won't that give me a false sense of security doubled up like that..? You are right though it would be used like that..


Ok.. so i lied.. somehow i ended up with 10" buried.. swear it said somewhere around 13"before.. probably the rope expanding.. It's bunched in pic so it's only showing 6'' crossover, but I'm pretty sure either way i have less in the crossover than i thought i was getting.. maybe i confused the total buried with the x-over.. i know i did a ton of measuring before burying.

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[Jimmycrackcorn]

Ok.. all done.. i knew a few of you might like the cute coral colored whipping so i threw it on there for ya..[emoji6]



Now.. all i have to do is destroy my project & make a legitimate one with correct buries..lol.

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[Santiago Casanova]

Your splices look good. If you can fit a carabiner in the hole it should be fine. It might be hard to remove once loaded.