Saw this ad. Thoughts?

[Kenny Sanchez]

I don't condemn when someone spends time out of their day to post and criticize others doings. Simply goes back to this quote which I've follow for years.
Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people.

 

[rico]

@rico Regardless of whether someone reports it, it appears to be child endangerment, right? An adult employee can get fired for those appearances right on the spot. How much more than that adult does a kid deserve to be put in a position where they stay out of the chipper?

I do not buy your argument about using a chainsaw. If your dad posted a picture (back in... 1994?) showing yourself engaged in unwitting reckless behavior then we could go there, and still we would be discussing whether or not to report it - not fumbling around for the law enforcement phone number.

Chill out and find something/someone else to thump at.

@rico Regardless of whether someone reports it, it appears to be child endangerment, right? An adult employee can get fired for those appearances right on the spot. How much more than that adult does a kid deserve to be put in a position where they stay out of the chipper?

I do not buy your argument about using a chainsaw. If your dad posted a picture (back in... 1994?) showing yourself engaged in unwitting reckless behavior then we could go there, and still we would be discussing whether or not to report it - not fumbling around for the law enforcement phone number.

Chill out and find something/someone else to thump at.

So you come on here without any facts or actual knowledge of the conditions concerning the photo and suggest we should consider calling child services because of a picture of a child standing in front of a chipper. Now I am the one that needs to "chill out" and "find someone else to thump on". Pretty slick move bro!



My father showing me how too run a saw in the 70's was somehow "reckless behavior" and worthy of dropping a dime. What about spurring up and down trees at the age of 12? Is that felonious activity? In your world generations of kids learning how to drive and operate farm equipment is unlawful? Generation of kids learning how to run a saw and split firewood/kindling is a crime? What about the loggers son who is falling small trees at the age of 11 or 12? What about the plumber who has his kid sweating pipe at the age of 10? What about the diary farmers daughter who is learning how to use the machinery to milk the cows , or the vineyard owner who is teaching his son to run the harvester? This is how it has been done for generations the world over. This is how skill and knowledge has been past down to the next generation since the dawn of time. I would argue that this is a much better system of education than taking a 24 yr old greenhorn and throwing him to the wolves working for Davey. Don't worry, all that PPE should save him if he or anyone near him does something really stupid?

 

[treegongfu]

Someone called the police on me for pulling my children up a tree.

Child protective services did an investigation into my ethnicity and education level and contacted the family doctor.

They tried to make me promise not to do it again,which I didn't, but they pretended I did and closed the case.

Most parents do what they think is best for their children and whether they are right or wrong or you agree with their choices it is there timeless natural right.

If someone calls the police and they take this child away and place it in foster care they will most definitely harm the child. And they will have failed to inoculate it from the physical dangers of the world.

 

[colb]

So you come on here without any facts or actual knowledge of the conditions concerning the photo and suggest we should consider calling child services because of a picture of a child standing in front of a chipper. Now I am the one that needs to "chill out" and "find someone else to thump on". Pretty slick move bro!



My father showing me how too run a saw in the 70's was somehow "reckless behavior" and worthy of dropping a dime. What about spurring up and down trees at the age of 12? Is that felonious activity? In your world generations of kids learning how to drive and operate farm equipment is unlawful? Generation of kids learning how to run a saw and split firewood/kindling is a crime? What about the loggers son who is falling small trees at the age of 11 or 12? What about the plumber who has his kid sweating pipe at the age of 10? What about the diary farmers daughter who is learning how to use the machinery to milk the cows , or the vineyard owner who is teaching his son to run the harvester? This is how it has been done for generations the world over. This is how skill and knowledge has been past down to the next generation since the dawn of time. I would argue that this is a much better system of education than taking a 24 yr old greenhorn and throwing him to the wolves working for Davey. Don't worry, all that PPE should save him if he or anyone near him does something really stupid?

@rico good for you - you did things mostly right, and did them young. That is different than doing it the wrongest way possible and doing it young. I'm just restating what I said in my last post, so this is your chance to read what I'm saying instead of reading something into what I'm saying that isn't there. For you, this is a brag session so far. Bragging is great, we all should brag. There should be a thread for bragging (pretty sure half of them are...). I'm not here to brag when a kid is inches away from the chipper intake. This is about that kid in that picture, not society in general.

You and I agree with the "train 'em young" philosophy. I cannot do that very much with my son because I have a poor family law circumstance (I'm a male) so I've got to focus on merely being available for my son until he is 18. But that picture does not appear to show training or baseline parenting - it appears to show the utter and complete lack of training and parenting.

You can't generalize this case into all the other cases that you mentioned where there is the reasonable assumption that there's a bit of guidance. If you just look at this case, it really sucks. That adult really sucked at that moment. They did everything wrong except actually throwing the kid into the chipper.

 

[colb]

I don't condemn when someone spends time out of their day to post and criticize others doings. Simply goes back to this quote which I've follow for years.
Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people.

If that holds, great minds never get much done...

 

[DSMc]

I will forever be grateful to the man that had enough balls to allow me, a messed up underage teen, to risk my life and learn this trade. But he also had the wisdom to point out how things can go wrong.

That picture, and it could have been anyone at any age, gives me the creeps.

 

[*useless info*]

If that holds, great minds never get much done...

.
Perhaps on some days, but then, when make a move is more towards pivotal points of farther leveraged reaching potentials, than bound by event or person.
.
There is a big diff in standing next to son and making sure arm locked and knows which way mule can kick and to pre-plan that locked left to always never allow saw to arc upward towards face etc. nor to cut down to far nor to hit metal etc. vs. sending 10yr old son into woods with saw etc.
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Like spotting kid on trampoline ready to yank out of harm and teaching at same time as Evo lends did in some other way. Should know bending rules and stand on guard that , that is all it ever becomes please. Has to be line of rules to flag notice to watch like 1 handing etc. the alarm in head to hyper vigilance cuz already one step over the line sweet Jesus...and any more lost ground can be lethal and Dad is mentor that keeps safe ushering in some of these rites of passage! Must get wet learnin' to swim, but don't leave'em alone to let'em drown!
.
Perhaps the jury will come back some day in far future and say that Rico actually did come out alright;
but jest like the rest of us talking to those that don't/never climb(ed), that doesn't mean the same forging is fit for the general populace around us! Really, toughest job i ever loved, but not for everyone. Lessons of life from it probably more valuable to kids than getting dragged down this path of hard life..

 

[SomethingWitty]

Am I the only one who thinks he has the right to let his kid kill himself by failing to teach him properly? Just a few years ago, they could have killed him with no social stigma at all, and once he's wandering around outside of a uterus there is suddenly no choice in how to raise him... it's either safe enough for your tastes or they should both be punished? Why the fuck can't we just live our lives?

 

[colb]

Am I the only one who thinks he has the right to let his kid kill himself by failing to teach him properly? Just a few years ago, they could have killed him with no social stigma at all, and once he's wandering around outside of a uterus there is suddenly no choice in how to raise him... it's either safe enough for your tastes or they should both be punished? Why the fuck can't we just live our lives?

Both the adult and the child have intrinsic rights - not just the adult. If it was just the adult who had rights I would simply agree with you, even though I still would not like it. What rights do children have/not have, in your view, @SomethingWitty ? I'd argue that if you can define those rights, you'll have to consider that this photo is all up in that definition.

 

[rico]

@rico For you, this is a brag session so far. Bragging is great, we all should brag. There should be a thread for bragging (pretty sure half of them are...). I'm not here to brag when a kid is inches away from the chipper intake.

Bragging? Really Colb? I am simply sharing my actual real life experience, and the experience of many folks I have known and worked with. No more, no less. If your internet trained brain can't handle the idea of a young boy being taught by his father to run a saw, I really can't help you out bro. If you are offended at the thought of a young person being taught valuable skills by an experienced elder then we are at an impasse buddy. I would ask you to keep your insults and your judgements as to whether I was bought up "mostly right" to yourself though?

You on the other hand are still operating in the world of speculation. If you have any real knowledge as to whether this chipper was actually running or not, please speak up. If you have any real knowledge as to whether an adult was guiding this kid, again speak up. Otherwise spare us anymore of your judgements, speculations, assumptions, and insults.

 

[DSMc]

Ummm... actually, no-one has "rights" in this world. Rights are merely a social construct and as such will vary with different peoples. In truth, with life, there is but a chance for success.

 

[Jemco]

Come on Rico!

You're on a professional arborist website here mate!

When I started riding at eight years old my dad made me wear a fuggin helmet.

That guy's a friggin fool to post that picture anywhere, much less a business website.

As an arborist? That kinda chit's an embarrassment.

As a father of three? I'd ask if he was serious, then punch him in the nose.

He needs to cleanup that website ASAP.

Next you'll be supportin child labor cuz it toughens em up?

Say it ain't so Rico!

Jemco

 

[colb]

Ummm... actually, no-one has "rights" in this world. Rights are merely a social construct and as such will vary with different peoples. In truth, with life, there is but a chance for success.

I hear you, lol... If we choose to have rights, then we come as close to having them as is possible, right? Got to chase that asymptote...

 

[SomethingWitty]

Both the adult and the child have intrinsic rights - not just the adult. If it was just the adult who had rights I would simply agree with you, even though I still would not like it. What rights do children have/not have, in your view, @SomethingWitty ? I'd argue that if you can define those rights, you'll have to consider that this photo is all up in that definition.

Far fewer than I should. It's one thing for a person's community to be involved in your family matters, but it is another entirely to have anyone who you haven't met being able to tell you what to do with the government backing them.
Not too terribly long ago, if someone wasn't handling business and beating their wife and kids or being stupid in any way, a few guys dragged him out back and straightened it out. There was no need for anybody with a badge or nametag to get involved. I feel the same way about charity. I am quite capable of deciding which families in need should get my hard-earned dollars.
Real people should have input. Your neighbors, the people that you interact with at church, school, the grocery store, even the other regulars at the bar.

 

[SomethingWitty]

I'm all about personal responsibility. If you need strangers to take your kid or put you in jail, I'd hope your friends and family would intervene first.

 

[Jemco]

One of my biggest beefs with modern education's the tendency to homogenize children according to age, rather than aptitude.

I'd love to see schools n colleges open 24/7 as societal safe zones.

The cold reality is that there are literally millions n millions of parents n kids in far less ideal circumstances than ever before in this country.

Our mandate's forming a more perfect union, not fracturing it into unrecognizibility.......

Jemco

 

[colb]

Bragging? Really Colb? I am simply sharing my actual real life experience, and the experience of many folks I have known and worked with. No more, no less. If your internet trained brain can't handle the idea of a young boy being taught by his father to run a saw, I really can't help you out bro. If you are offended at the thought of a young person being taught valuable skills by an experienced elder then we are at an impasse buddy. I would ask you to keep your insults and your judgements as to whether I was bought up "mostly right" to yourself though?

You on the other hand are still operating in the world of speculation. If you have any real knowledge as to whether this chipper was actually running or not, please speak up. If you have any real knowledge as to whether an adult was guiding this kid, again speak up. Otherwise spare us anymore of your judgements, speculations, assumptions, and insults.

I had a sunnyside egg with pan fried plantain this morning. This is my life experience. It's meaningful. It doesn't apply to the kid in the chipper. Your life experience is meaningful. So far, it doesn't apply to the kid in the chipper. Your dad taught you skills. This parent is not teaching skills. Teaching skills and not teaching skills are not comparable. They are the substance of contrast. If you talk about how your dad sat around, took pictures while you pointed a gun at yourself, and then posted those pictures on his hunting guide business website, then it would translate to this chipper kid thing. We would then consider whether it was loaded, whether it was a real gun, whether it is bad practice regardless of whether it is real or not, loaded or not, etc. If your dad taught you to use a saw at a young age then that's great, and it is completely off topic. Did he teach you how to use it poorly? Then let's discuss that since it applies to this chipper kid, who is being taught to use it poorly.

I don't like your attitude towards me and this issue in this post. I don't like your position on the matter, but I'm still glad you're letting me know your position. Get this back to a place where we're two guys on the internet figuring out what's up with chipper kid.

I understand that you should speak to your upbringing since I was not there.

The chipper might be on, or off, I continue to say. The appearances are horrible, I continue to say.

 

[Jemco]

The moral of the story's that even Eval fuggin Knieval taught children to wear helmets when ridin murdersickles!

So should you.

Jemco

 

[Serf Life]

Not too terribly long ago, if someone wasn't handling business and beating their wife and kids or being stupid in any way, a few guys dragged him out back and straightened it out.

You actually believe this bud? Sure as shit hope not 'cause it aint the truth. That is not "straightened out" for the wife and kids, just in the minds of the guys getting jollies beating the guy. I would too, but for enjoyment not fixing the problem. Too close to home homie.

 

[Cereal_Killer]

Love it, put the crotch goblin to work I say. I'd hire them.