Question for those who do the hiring.

The low barriers to entry to starting one's own gig is a reason that people don't want to spend money to train their future competition. A backpack with a saddle and rope and handsaw can start you out on limbing jobs with no clean-up.

I started my business 4 years ago with a van, 5 hp Craftsman chipper, MS 361, a little Mac backhandle saw, and rock climbing gear. Now, after 4 years of blood (very, very little), sweat (lots and lots and lots and lots), and tears (figuratively speaking), I have GL, WC, ISA-CA, licenses, a bond, a chip truck, chipper, stump grinder, pick-up truck, two trailers, and a mortgage.
 
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Ask yourself this, who would you hire, the guy that has no experience and is asking you to train him from scratch in to a position that will cost the employer a bunch of money to have guys stand around on the ground while you are learning everything, much more likely to have an accident or injury due to being completely green, or the guy that comes with self-motivation, a proven desire to learn, an awareness of some of what it takes to do the intricacies of the job, but no experience in production work, but rec climbing experience?

How to prove it? Show them.

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Here's is what I do bring.

A Horticultural degree, Class B CDL, Category 24 turf and Ornamental license, years of landscape experience (tree id, pruning, care, etc). Currently taking a Arboricultural class at the local college (taught by ISA Arborist, ISA study guide as the textbook) for the second time (it's free) to in order to take my ISA exam first of January. AND competed for the local college in a national climbing competition as the ground man throwing line.


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Interview Question: Can you tie a clove hitch or running bowline, and in what situation would you use either?
Answer: Yes, I can tie both with my eyes closed, like this. I'd use a CH for clipping a carabiner midline for lowering a tool down, but not for rigging without two half hitches because of the danger of the CH rolling out. I'd use a RB to rig a light piece, and use a RB with a half-hitch or marl if it is heavier.

These were asked of me at my last interview.

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I am pretty confident you were not there for a entry mans job either. Although I do know most knots and their usage. GETTING THE INTERVIEW IS THE PROBLEM !!!


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Question: What is the proper procedure for a limb removal and proper pruning cut.

Answer: three point cut method at the branch collar. The branch collar location is identifiable by...

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I know the method very well.


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100% of people will throw out your resume if you want everything, and come with nothing, to start into a position that most people learn/ earn their way into.


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I bring things to the table as outlined above.
 
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A lot of trade work has formal, multiyear apprentice programs. Treework isn't like a union carpenter program in its formality, but a three year apprenticeship under a qualified tree worker would get you a long way. Just expect apprentice wages for being trained and slowing down their operation.


I've had people ask to work for me for free in exchange for training.

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I am ok with starter wages. I am not working for free. No business owner in their right mind would take on a free worker. Lots of liabilities, and potentially financial ruin if something goes wrong.
 
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The low barriers to entry to starting one's own gig is a reason that people don't want to spend money to train their future competition.

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Kind of like the business owner themselves did? Don't do as I did?

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I started my business 4 years ago with a van, 5 hp Craftsman chipper, MS 361, a little Mac backhandle saw, and rock climbing gear. Now, after 4 years of blood (very, very little), sweat (lots and lots and lots and lots), and tears (figuratively speaking), I have GL, WC, ISA-CA, licenses, a bond, a chip truck, chipper, stump grinder, pick-up truck, two trailers, and a mortgage.

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But you didn't just start out cutting trees. You had the EXPERIENCE (on many levels) to start your business. That's the whole point of the conversation. I bring things to the table and the desire to be taught but yet can't get a break. It is meant to be it will be. If not, so be it. I can always climb for fun.
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STOP APPLYING FOR A JOB! Make a list of all the tree co's you want to work for. Find the name of the owner or manager. Call them or go there and ask for them at a time that would work for them, not you. Explain very briefly (30 seconds is what most are willing to give you for free) what your ambition is and what you've taken the initiative to do on your own to achieve it. Tell them what your resume will show them about your work ethic while acknowledging it doesn't included experience in the industry. Show them how quickly you will become productive and add to their crew.

You need to do some work to find work not just fire off a resume and cross your fingers. Demonstrate to the prospective employer you're not the average person but one that is ready to do what is necessary to prove your worth. It is not an easy approach but far more fruitful.
 
Sean, was the craftsman chipper any faster or more efficient than just using a saw to much down a load? My dad had some kind of little chopper, and maybe the blades were dull, but that thing chipped a branch slower than I could take a tree down (and that's slow)
 
I don't understand people that ask questions for which they seemingly have all the answers.

If you want a job doing tree work, and you obviously have some credentials that would lend themselves to the benefit of a company, then GO GET A JOB. Go to work, perhaps your expectations are too high.

I for one, would only be happy to see your CDL license, the rest tells me you've been educated just enough to make you think you know whats going on when it comes to arboriculture. When in reality, you DON'T.

It bugs the everloving @!#@ outta me that someone with >3 years of landscape experience and a degree in horticulture can challenge the ISA cert without a problem when they, like you have admitted, know nothing of everyday arboricultural field operations. They are now landscapers that have 'tickets' to do treework. It needs to be a red seal trade, like a carpenter, or even a line clearance arborist. BC, where I live has recently taken that step. I believe that the ISA cert is devalued because of this phenomena.

It tells people with the requisite experience and demonstration of knowledge, people like me, who have earned the certification through blood, sweat and tears as an apprentice to a journeymen working in the field for the requisite time, it tells us that someone who mows lawns for 3 years can claim to do what we can. That they might flash their ISA to a potential customer and be taken as seriously as us who have ACTUAL experience and knowledge is a serious problem to me.

Furthermore you have explained that you plan to challenge a certification you admit to not having requisite experience to hold...ridiculous. Take a casual course in a local college, prune a few trees on a landscape crew and all of a sudden you're an arborist, eh?

You live in a large market, and you can't find an interview? Have you exhausted ALL possibilities?

The best way to get an interview is to get an interview. If you can't figure this out, then find another line of work.

Be resourceful, be unorthodox, distinguish yourself from others. And above all, BE HUMBLE. From your responses here, I would wager that the way in which you speak to potential interviewers on the phone or in person may make them see a red flag. The biggest sore spot when it comes to training anyone, in any trade, is when the trainee thinks they know what they are doing and the journeyman KNOWS that the trainee hasn't a clue.

To add; if you can't find an entry level position in tree work, you won't be able to find a job anywhere. I think its just you, not potential employers, that has the problem.

Pack brush, chip brush; repeat. Show some initiative, show some work ethic; and your boss MAY decide that you are a candidate to progress. But thats up to YOU!
 
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I for one, would only be happy to see your CDL license, the rest tells me you've been educated just enough to make you think you know whats going on when it comes to arboriculture. When in reality, you DON'T.

It bugs the everloving @!#@ outta me that someone with >3 years of landscape experience and a degree in horticulture can challenge the ISA cert without a problem when they, like you have admitted, know nothing of everyday arboricultural field operations. They are now landscapers that have 'tickets' to do treework. It needs to be a red seal trade, like a carpenter, or even a line clearance arborist. BC, where I live has recently taken that step. I believe that the ISA cert is devalued because of this phenomena.


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Dylan, good post, pretty much what was running through my mind as I read the list of what he brings to the table. He wouldn't get hired as a climber here with that "resume" or even as a groundman with that attitude.
 
Glad I could lend a few laughs to the mix.

The fact that I'm even responding should show you that you may have some potential in the field. I encourage you to continue your path, but check your ego at the door and be prepared to prove yourself everyday before you find your spot in the canopy.

You may be a good arborist one day, you may not. The person that will decide that is YOU.

Don't expect a high starting wage, or to be in the climber's saddle anytime soon. You have to earn your spurs (pun most definitely intended).

One quick question:

Do you have your own climbing gear and/or rigging gear?
 
I agree Newbie4now sounds like a know it all stuck up punk and that is exactly why he doesn't have a job.

I learned that the more and more he posted.
 
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Dylan, good post, pretty much what was running through my mind as I read the list of what he brings to the table. He wouldn't get hired as a climber here with that "resume" or even as a groundman with that attitude.

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Attitude ?

OBVIOUSLY you didn't even read the thread. I am not trying to get a job as climber. The discussion is about someone taking me on as a apprentice.
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I agree Newbie4now sounds like a know it all stuck up punk and that is exactly why he doesn't have a job.

I learned that the more and more he posted.

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Probably not the most approriate answer to this clown.
 
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Glad I could lend a few laughs to the mix.

The fact that I'm even responding should show you that you may have some potential in the field. I encourage you to continue your path, but check your ego at the door and be prepared to prove yourself everyday before you find your spot in the canopy.

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Tell me where/what in this thread, that I have said, gives you the idea I have a ego?

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You may be a good arborist one day, you may not. The person that will decide that is YOU.

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I agree.

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Don't expect a high starting wage, or to be in the climber's saddle anytime soon. You have to earn your spurs (pun most definitely intended).

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Did you even READ the thread before you chimed in?

I said, "I was ok with a LOW STARTING WAGE !!!"


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One quick question:

Do you have your own climbing gear and/or rigging gear?

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I do have some. AGAIN, did you read the thread? I am looking to be an apprentice. Which means I know very little. I have NEVER disputed that.
 
Listen, buddy. The attitude we are all talking about has come through loud and clear in those last few messages. Curb it, and be prepared to be humble before you even attempt a job in the tree care industry. I did read that you didn't expect a high wage, but given the thickness of your dome I thought it a point that I might reiterate, if nothing else than for posterity's sake.

Did I read the thread? Yes. I am also in a position to hire a lead hand, so this is a very pertinent thread for which I am giving you my very best. YOU, on the other hand, come across as an arrogant little snot, so green and idealistic that you literally can't see the forest for the trees.

I am telling you as someone in such a position, that you actually would make a good fit, given your education and qualifications, especially if the company is diversified and offers landscape maintenance as well as aboricultural services.

So, try and take this to heart. Listen to me when I tell you that you are being arrogant, and attempt to change.

You say you have some climbing gear...like what? A belt and a rope, a few biners? What do you have? I have anywhere between 1.5k-3k worth of gear (incl. my own saws) hanging off me when I climb...what have you invested into your future?

You started the thread asking why it is so difficult to find a job as an apprentice. A few chimed in with some good insights. Basically, an apprentice climber...wait for it, is a GROUNDMAN.

If you don't have the chops, or can't demonstrate potential at this position, then you haven't a hope at the climber's position. You have wandered into a forum with seasoned tree people, and appear to ask questions for which only you have the answers. This is the attitude for which you have been chastised.

You haven't demonstrated an ability to continue this discussion in a civil manner, so if you are unable to respond to this post as such, and trust me, I am doing my best to bite my tongue, then I will have no recourse but to consider you a troll. I won't wander across your bridge any longer if this is the case.
 
I think it is evident you know very little in regards to humility. Given the tone of your above posts, you would not last long on any tree crew as a trainee. If you really want to do this type of work, keep your ego in check.
 
newbiefornow sounds like you are a newbieforgood !!!!! no need to use that language . you are really showing you on this one maybe you would be best to work at walmart . oops they need intellectual people there too . sorry !!! in order to be a great talker you must be a great listener . hit the refresh button to your brain and start over . you dont want to be a dumbass your whole life do you ??? these guys have given you solid advice . well all i can say is you can lead a horse to water but you cant make him drink .
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