Question for those who do the hiring.

Yes there are schools that train people to work in tree care, look in your states school system.

Otherwise applying to a local company at an entry level seems to be the next step..

possibly a local saw shop may have some chain saw courses that are being offered.

Companies such as Arbor Masters offer training courses.

Some places have recreational tree climbing clubs,,a good start..

Work hard, study hard, and be ready to learn. Eat, sleep, and sit tree care.



START LOW AND SLOW AND BEST WISHES!

PS. and watch your mouth kid!
 
Wow. Missed this whole thread.
Many excellent points made. Most relevantly about going through the expense of training young guys. And as X said, they seldom stay at the company that trained them. they get married, decide to go to business school or think they have all the msarts to start their own biz.
Most climbers around here start as groundies and then progress based on background and ability. You are not gonna get hired right away as a climber. Being a groundie is also important training for being a climber. You need to learn that first. Its part of the drill.

All climbers are also groundies. You need to swallow any ego you may have about that and accept it.

Just my opinion.
 
Bottom line is we have to look at it from two directions.

First is from your side of the coin. You want to be a climber. That is laudable and worthy.

However, you are not a climber right now. In this business the way you become a climber is on your own time.

Companies will give competent ground workers opportunities to grow and learn and to become climbers but they cannot afford to put you into a climbing position and then teach you.

Think about it in these terms, would you go to a surgeon who has assistants who have been to school but never seen a human patient before? How about a Veterinarian Assistant who "Challenged" the credential process and is now paper qualified to be an assistant?

It seems that is what you are asking for, expecting to be hired as a surgeon's assistant without ever having done the job.

Suggestion, look for a gopher or other entry level ground position first. You can launch into climbing from there. If you are as driven and as competent as you say you are you will move up quickly into the roles you desire.

If you approach me looking for a climbing job then I probably won't have much of a conversation with you. If you tell me you really want in on this industry, want to work hard and learn as much as you can and ask how you can get started on that path then maybe we could have a conversation and find a way to get you on board.

I submit this, a climber who is not first a groundsman is not a complete climber. And a groundsman who does not know the climber's job inside will never be an effective groundsman.

'nuff said there.

Now, the other side of the coin has pretty well been explained, If I am looking for a climber, I NEED a climber, I am not looking for an almost climber, I am not looking for an unhatched egg of a climber, I'm not looking for a "when I grow up I wanna be" a climber. I need someone who IS a climber.

The reason I need a climber is that work is not getting done. If I have to train a climber from the ground up then not only is the work not getting done, it is costing me more to have it not get done.

Ask yourself this, if you knocked on a customer's door and told them you could remove their tree for them for $20/hour but you don't know how long it will take because you really don't know what you are doing yet do you think that you will get many customers to hire you without reservation? More to the point, do you think you could pay your bills?

An employer IS your customer and they have every right to expect a fair return on the money they spend to have you deliver your services.

Customers pay you for what you CAN do and offer you opportunities to do more as you grow and prove yourself competent.

Employers OWE YOU nothing, and as long as you feel you owe employers nothing then, well, you'll find yourself on the outside looking in all the time.

So, what do I do about hiring climbers? I don't. I hire ground people and make it very clear, "you will have opportunities to climb, but you must take the initiative and show me that you are interested, willing and able. I will not drag you or push you through the process. If you want to learn you will seek opportunities and make it happen. I will help, but you need to make it happen."

So far, none of my recent "climber wannabes" has progressed beyond ground worker status.

Not that they aren't capable, just not as interested as they thought they were.

You want to impress the hell out of an employer, be willing to muck out the stalls, come to work with the attitude and corresponding actions that say you'll do whatever it takes to become the best you can, show up with your own gear, preferable showing signs of good use, start climbing trees on your own for fun, learn how to move in the canopy, find other tree climbers and spend time with them.
 
I had said [ QUOTE ]
"sounds like a know it all stuck up punk."



[/ QUOTE ]

I was pretty sure you were from your posts, but decided to test ya a bit. Your reply clearly shows you are not someone that can handle having a boss. So, how are you going to have a job if you can't handle having a boss?

If you had replied, something like, "I don't know how I'm coming across as having an attitude, I was just asking for help, maybe something was lost in writing text", or something like that, you would have moved up instead of way down.

Jumping to vulgar language immediately just shows us you are a real peice of work.

You'll never work for us nor anyone I know.

Plus all the other employers on here that read this will never higher you; unless they are some freak that likes to argue and deal with irritating employees.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Listen, buddy. The attitude we are all talking about has come through loud and clear in those last few messages. Curb it, and be prepared to be humble before you even attempt a job in the tree care industry. I did read that you didn't expect a high wage, but given the thickness of your dome I thought it a point that I might reiterate, if nothing else than for posterity's sake.

Did I read the thread? Yes. I am also in a position to hire a lead hand, so this is a very pertinent thread for which I am giving you my very best. <font color="red">YOU, on the other hand, come across as an arrogant little snot, so green and idealistic that you literally can't see the forest for the trees.</font>

[/ QUOTE ]

Show me a post BEFORE you chimed in that would indicate that. Quote the ENTIRE exchange.

[ QUOTE ]
I am telling you as someone in such a position, that you actually would make a good fit, given your education and qualifications, especially if the company is diversified and offers landscape maintenance as well as aboricultural services.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
So, try and take this to heart. Listen to me when I tell you that you are being arrogant, and attempt to change.

[/ QUOTE ]

AGAIN, how I am being arrogant?

[ QUOTE ]
You say you have some climbing gear...like what? A belt and a rope, a few biners? What do you have? I have anywhere between 1.5k-3k worth of gear (incl. my own saws) hanging off me when I climb...what have you invested into your future?

[/ QUOTE ]

But you are a seasoned climber. I would EXPECT you to have that. I am not. So WHY would I have that much money invested into it? Did you have all that your first day on the job?? NO, so WHY would expect me to?

[ QUOTE ]
You started the thread asking why it is so difficult to find a job as an apprentice. A few chimed in with some good insights. Basically, an apprentice climber...wait for it, is a GROUNDMAN.

[/ QUOTE ]

EXACTLY, but my point is (if you would have read the thread) everyone seems to want even EXPERIENCED ground men.



[ QUOTE ]
If you don't have the chops, or can't demonstrate potential at this position, then you haven't a hope at the climber's position. You have wandered into a forum with seasoned tree people, and appear to ask questions for which only you have the answers. This is the attitude for which you have been chastised.

[/ QUOTE ]

AGAIN, show me the attitude!!! AGAIN, before you chimed in.

[ QUOTE ]
You haven't demonstrated an ability to continue this discussion in a civil manner, so if you are unable to respond to this post as such, and trust me, I am doing my best to bite my tongue, then I will have no recourse but to consider you a troll. I won't wander across your bridge any longer if this is the case.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have kept it civil. But when being attacked, I attack back.
 
[ QUOTE ]
I think it is evident you know very little in regards to humility. Given the tone of your above posts, you would not last long on any tree crew as a trainee. If you really want to do this type of work, keep your ego in check.

[/ QUOTE ]

Another useless post by some one who obviously didn't read the thread.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Yes there are schools that train people to work in tree care, look in your states school system.

Otherwise applying to a local company at an entry level seems to be the next step..

possibly a local saw shop may have some chain saw courses that are being offered.

Companies such as Arbor Masters offer training courses.

Some places have recreational tree climbing clubs,,a good start..

Work hard, study hard, and be ready to learn. Eat, sleep, and sit tree care.



START LOW AND SLOW AND BEST WISHES!



[/ QUOTE ]

THANKS for the encouragement !!!
 
[ QUOTE ]
Wow. Missed this whole thread.
Many excellent points made. Most relevantly about going through the expense of training young guys. And as X said, they seldom stay at the company that trained them. they get married, decide to go to business school or think they have all the msarts to start their own biz.

[/ QUOTE ]

And you point is? If EVERYONE adapts this thinking, this industry will be DEAD !!! Someone has got to be willing to take a gamble and show people WILLING to learn.

Even the most seasoned employee is at risk of leaving at any time. That is just not a legitimate argument.

[ QUOTE ]
Most climbers around here start as groundies and then progress based on background and ability. You are not gonna get hired right away as a climber. Being a groundie is also important training for being a climber. You need to learn that first. Its part of the drill.

All climbers are also groundies. You need to swallow any ego you may have about that and accept it.

Just my opinion.

[/ QUOTE ]

What ego are you talking about? AGAIN, another person who OBVIOUSLY either DIDN'T or CAN'T READ the ENTIRE thread.
 
[ QUOTE ]
I had said "sounds like a know it all stuck up punk."



[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
I was pretty sure you were from your posts, but decided to test ya a bit. Your reply clearly shows you are not someone that can handle having a boss. So, how are you going to have a job if you can't handle having a boss?

[/ QUOTE ]

WHAT? How did you come to that conclusion. Because I didn't appreciate being called a punk?

[ QUOTE ]
If you had replied, something like, "I don't know how I'm coming across as having an attitude, I was just asking for help, maybe something was lost in writing text", or something like that, you would have moved up instead of way down.

[/ QUOTE ]

SHOW me where, I have exhibited a attitude. Make this showing in the beginning of the conversation BEFORE dylanclimbs attached that word to the conversation.

[ QUOTE ]
Jumping to vulgar language immediately just shows us you are a real peice of work.

[/ QUOTE ]

I WON'T let YOU or ANYONE attack me. Being that you threw the FIRST stone speaks volumes about YOU !!!!


[ QUOTE ]
You'll never work for us nor anyone I know.

[/ QUOTE ]

No need to worry about that.

[ QUOTE ]
Plus all the other employers on here that read this will never higher you; unless they are some freak that likes to argue and deal with irritating employees.

[/ QUOTE ]


Amazing how you can draw that conclusion based on a internet thread.
9lame.gif
 
[ QUOTE ]

How come businesses (for the most part) are unwilling to take on rookies and teach them to climb? Unless there is some tree climbing school some where that is turning out tree climbers?

[/ QUOTE ]

For me its important that someone who wants to climb shows initiative and an enthusiasm for what they want to do.

I taught myself how to climb with an old rockclimbing harness, 2 quick open biners and a three strand nylon rope in a wood near my house on my own, started to learn knots from basic knot books and learned about the most common trees using tree id books. After a few months, saved up and bought a Weaver harness and a New England rope and two screw gate biners.

Worked for very low money for the first two years with guys who were keen to share a bit of experience with me. But the bottom line is that no-one can teach you how to climb trees, you have to learn that for yourself. If you are serious about it you will do this.

if you are serious about being a climber know these knots inside out -

bowline, clove hitch, tautline hitch, basic prussik hitch, sheet bend, running bowline, timber hitch, various throwing knots, marlinspike.

Buy the treeclimber's companion by jeff jepson, know this book inside out. If you want to understand more buy the study guide for the ISA Certified Arborist, even if a lot of it goes over your head just now things will start to sink in.

Buy a basic tree id book, learn about 20 of the most common trees in your area, because if you came to me looking for a job as a climber and didn't know an Oak from a Maple I wouldn't hire you.

You have to show prospective employers you are keen and have an understanding of the basics. This is the foundation of a good arborist.

good luck
 
[ QUOTE ]

All climbers are also groundies. You need to swallow any ego you may have about that and accept it.

Just my opinion.

[/ QUOTE ]

What ego are you talking about? AGAIN, another person who OBVIOUSLY either DIDN'T or CAN'T READ the ENTIRE thread.

[/ QUOTE ]

You didn't even read my post. Just reacted. I said "ego you may have". I don't know you or what kind of ego you have. Your rants are pretty extreme though.

You are right. I did not read all the posts. I don't have time to read all the bullshit that went on after a few legitimate responses were made.
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think it is evident you know very little in regards to humility. Given the tone of your above posts, you would not last long on any tree crew as a trainee. If you really want to do this type of work, keep your ego in check.

[/ QUOTE ]

Another useless post by some one who obviously didn't read the thread.

[/ QUOTE ]

You are funny.
 
once again you showed your dumbass !!! i am not hiding behind a computer i am commenting on this thread .if you want to meet me come to pittsburgh that is where i live bro . you have a answer for everything .you are not listening to what any of these very experience tree people are trying to tell you . i have a close friend of mine who owns a tree service in your area and it is not a small one either . i would have been glad to network for you but there is no way now . you have alot to learn about life before you even think about doing tree work . nobody is perfect but you can't even get along with people on this thread . there is more to tree work then just knowing it . you must be able to communicate well and get along with others . you will not go far with your attitude . take the chip off your shoulder before it gets knocked off for you . hope you wise up .
grin.gif
 
Nora language!

This isn't an attack as apposed to just common sense. Your not even in the trade and your attacking those in the trade, which is just stupid. Put some time in then criticize. It's funny because if you can't handle a little smack on an internet forum, you WON'T cut it in the field. You think we all sit around and pat each other on the back all the time. The reality of it is your going to be yelled at, several times. Your going to be called an idiot, a moron, and have the lord almighty's name cursed in vain because of your actions, until you understand what is going on. We all have. We don't have an HR department, or a union to back you up or even to help move you through the ranks. You do it all yourself. I didn't bleed and put in the long hours dragging brush so some new guy can get an easy pass into climbing, you earn that right.

To say that this trade will be dead because of these actions is preposterous, when every other trade does this to their new people. You think a carpenters apprentice picks up a hammer on his first day out of school? You don't think the drywall apprentice doesn't spend his whole day lugging board up and down stairs till they get some YEARS in? Get a reality check bud, cause if you can't get hired to even drag brush to a chipper than this isn't the job for you and the fact that you can write the ISA arborist test is truly a slap to the face. Before you even attack, trust me I speak from experience, I pissed a good chance down the drain because of some stupid choices I made, now I'm working my *** off to get them back.

Cheers and good luck.
 
Ok, I'll change tack here.

You need to realize that there are employment opportunities in the arboricultural industry in a city of half a million people. The reason you haven't found them could be because you are not selling yourself in the right manner. I think you have created a self-fulfilling prophecy in your head. I can't get a job because I have no experience, I have no experience because I can't get a job.

Show me your resume. I'll help you tailor it to get a tree gig.

As for the attitude I accused you of having. I stand by what I posted earlier. You come across as having all the answers, to the most basic of questions we have all come to grips with at some point or another. We all managed to get a starting job in the tree biz. You are having some major problems, and appear to blame the industry. It would be wiser to reevaluate yourself. Reflection on this thread may yield some insight into what may be an obstacle. Basically, if you are not willing to consider yourself arrogant, at least be prepared to be called haughty.

It was especially frustrating to read your rebuttal to southsoundtree because he tried to give you some sound advice, and asked some questions of you that, had you answered honestly would have better allowed us to ascertain your palatability to the labour market. Instead you chose the reductio add abdsurdum path, and made him out to be a fool because he did not specifically address the self-fulfilled prophecy I mentioned earlier. This frustrated me because I know SST is a solid tree man, with many good insights. You chose to ignore the wisdom represented by those questions, and implied he was a fool. This bugs me. I reacted. I am human.

Remember that those that are in positions to hire in your area may frequent this site. I doubt any would be willing to give you the time of day let alone an interview after they read this.

G'luck!
 
I am pretty confident you were not there for a entry mans job either. Although I do know most knots and their usage. GETTING THE INTERVIEW IS THE PROBLEM !!!


Show up earlier than all the employees where you want an interview with coffee and donuts.....every day until you get an interview. Be there at night when crews come back too if need be...do what it takes.
What else have you done to improve your climbing skills?sign up for a course...
And instead of quoteing and responding to posts here take the time to go out and do something...you r time on this thread is not productive for you.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Sean, was the craftsman chipper any faster or more efficient than just using a saw to much down a load? My dad had some kind of little chopper, and maybe the blades were dull, but that thing chipped a branch slower than I could take a tree down (and that's slow)

[/ QUOTE ]

Close to worthless aside from tiny jobs, not small, only tiny. didn't last long. sold for the purchase price.
 
Nevermind this useless thread - nobody cares about new climbers, or old ones, for that matter. I don't care about people's ambitions or what they hope to become; that's for judges, clerics and your mothers to consider. We have something far more important to focus on here:

[ QUOTE ]
You are right. I did not read all the posts. I don't have time to read all the bullshit that went on after a few legitimate responses were made.

[/ QUOTE ]
That quote came from Nora, and I italicized the point I'd like to draw your attention to. . . . Where did the language content filter go? How long have we been able to post like this? Half of my posts have ignorant little asterisks in place of key vowels, like horsesh*t instead of horseshit. None of you could send me an IM highlighting this?
 
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