Jem4417
Branched out member
95% of Tree workers don’t deal with the size trees you do
Question about felling technique
- Thread starter samsquatch
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Tony
Carpal tunnel level member
- Location
- Lancaster, PA
While large trees certainly offer unique challenges. Wood fibre is wood fiber, physics is physics and thinking a substandard technique is sufficient simply becase a tree is “small” is complacency and/or ignorance a sawyer should never fall prey to.
Tony
Jem4417
Branched out member
Thanks for another vague life tip on how to keep a consistent thought process tony
Tony
Carpal tunnel level member
- Location
- Lancaster, PA
For the record. This conversation has broached two very distinct professions. The professional faller and the professional arborist. While similarties exist, the two are distinct in risk and damage acceptance levels as well as desired goals. Therefore, the tools and techniques will also be distinct.
I address this disscussion as an arborist, not a timber faller.
As a production arborists I find ALL of the techniques Daniel has proposed in this discussion to be reckless and ill-conceived, putting the sawyer at unnecsaary risk all the while making a relatively unpredictable situation worse. There are far better tools and techniques at our disposal as arborists removing a hazards.
Clear enough?
Tony
Agreed, but many arborist's would, and do benefit greatly from time spent working with pro fallers and loggers. I myself came at it from the other direction, so what the heck do i know.?
I have mad respect for Daniel's quest to push the envelope and create crazy new cuts/methods, but my main issues with some of his methods is that he seems to overcomplicate things, and create unpredictable, unproven, dangerous scenarios downstream.
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Tony
Carpal tunnel level member
- Location
- Lancaster, PA
With this I am in total agreement. I also believe to opposite would be true. The concepts of tree felling are fairly universal, the applications vary widely.
Tony
Jem4417
Branched out member
Yea that’ll work
Jem4417
Branched out member
I think the technique is great Daniel. I see what your going for and when that could come in handy. Thanks
evo
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- My Island, WA
The only difference is the grunt of the saw, and volume of wood in the cutters
I too understand what he going for, but there already exists a safe, proven cut for the same purpose. Been around since before dirt was invented.
evo
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- My Island, WA
I’d like to add EGO that he his holier than now, and his superiority issue. Dude, should talk to a professional about that. Leaning new ways of doing shit is cool, but teaching it is another story. Nearly everything he posts should have a experimental disclaimer. While he speaks clearly he has little to no place teaching.
Oh lord it’s hard to be humble, when your perfect in every way.
I can’t stand to look in the mirror, cause I get better looking each day.
To know me is to love me. I must be a hell of a man
Oh lord it’s hard to be humble, but I’m doing the best that I can.
I can’t stand to look in the mirror, cause I get better looking each day.
To know me is to love me. I must be a hell of a man
Oh lord it’s hard to be humble, but I’m doing the best that I can.
evo
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- My Island, WA
I am luck to own some the gear that has graced you’re finger tips..
Daniel never sells his shit, maybe that’s what’s wrong with him
evo
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- My Island, WA
Nah sweets, just letting it all hang out this evening. Regression is all
Daniel
Carpal tunnel level member
- Location
- Suburban Philadelphia (Wayne)
It's not a double slice cut. It's a steep angled Humboldt. Called the stangle.
And of course you understand it. It only took two explanations and a video, but you finally got it...
so is it still "fucked up"
evo
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- My Island, WA
Yes
Maybe I’m seeing things, but I’m pretty sure the pic on post #32 of that gawd awful stumpie does have 2 layers of cuts. You can call it whatever you want, but in reality it is a fucked up double slice cut. It looks as if the tree got hung up or you gave up on the lower cut, and proceeded to the upper cut. Makes no fucking sense bro. None.
For your stated purpose all you had to do was perform a Humboldt, but use a very steep diagonal. When done cutting the diagonal flow right into a backcut at that exact same angle and you have a slice cut that will slightly fall into your head lean if needed. Yet another simple, safe, proven cut that has beeen around since before fire was discovered.
By the way, I didn’t watch any of the19 videos of you performing a slice cut. Sorry bro.
For your stated purpose all you had to do was perform a Humboldt, but use a very steep diagonal. When done cutting the diagonal flow right into a backcut at that exact same angle and you have a slice cut that will slightly fall into your head lean if needed. Yet another simple, safe, proven cut that has beeen around since before fire was discovered.
By the way, I didn’t watch any of the19 videos of you performing a slice cut. Sorry bro.
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Daniel
Carpal tunnel level member
- Location
- Suburban Philadelphia (Wayne)
Unpredictable and unproven to you maybe.. It's SOP for me.. Do this stuff everyday, and I understand in great detail what the limitations and capabilities are...
Just because a cut makes no sense to you, doesn't mean there isn't a good reason out there that you haven't thought of yet... Very common trait among tree men is to bash anything they haven't seen before as if they know everything there is and ever could be known about tree work...
Of course anything new is going to look unproven and dangerous to someone that has never seen it before.... THIS IS TREE WORK! everything about it is dangerous if you don't know what you're doing. We all have that natural tendency to dismiss the unfamiliar.. Its rooted a survival instinct, which has managed to keep us alive all these years.
I have learned to resit that tendency and actually thrive by thinking and experimenting outside the box. And only shared a portion of the unorthodox methods I use.. They are all unproven, unseen, and untested (except by me).. I've been working with them for years, seeing what can and can't be done... Studying the video, slowing it down, sometimes frame by frame... Teasing every bit of understanding I can out.
That pine top sliding off the stangle perfectly into the small hole inside the branches of two trees was not my first rodeo... I posted that unlisted on YouTube in July of 16, over two years ago and only shared it with a few friends until now...
That double slice cut you can't understand was part of a $4,400, 7 hour day with three men, and a fourth that only worked 4 hours... That included dropping three dead oaks, light deadwood on a 30" DBH white oak, and one large maple stump. The client didn't have a price of less than 4,000 on the biggest oak, which was in the worst shape. I had it finished in under two hours with 3 men, saving him over $2K on that one tree alone... No climbing, no bucket. Just a throwline, one rope, the skid loader, one saw for one cut and a little thinking outside the box.
When the big dead snags are shedding bark and ready to fall apart the tree guys around here tiptoe away if they can't get their equipment back to the tree.... You west coast loggers are much tougher... You don't always have the option of walking away from a big snag and you deal with them a lot bigger, a lot deader and a lot more often than we do.....
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We all remember the "intentional barberchair", and the after photo of a tree attached to a high stump by a barber chair of broken, splintered wood. Doing stupid shit that creates a dangerous situation downstream? It definitely checks those boxes.
You mentioned that you developed the "strangle" cut for those tops that you couldn't reach with your bucket, and were to tall to fit in your lay. Why not climb the fucking thing, have someone else climb it, and/or rig it right. Nope that sounds like hard work, and to sensible. Instead your doing this "strangle" slice cut from a bucket without rigging, simply because you couldn't reach any higher with your bucket, and were too fucking lazy to climb it? What could possible go wrong here? Eventually one of these slice cut tops is gonna comeback and clobber you, with nowhere to run or hide. That is the very definition of doing very stupid, lazy shit that will eventually kill someone.
When using the slice cut at height on upright leader/ tops we are usually tip tying to another rigging point so that they can be lowered straight down in a slow controlled manner, so as not to beat the living shit out of the climber. Using safe. proven, time tested, effective methods means just that. Is that not good enough for you?
Were you mentored by pro climbers and fallers when you were coming up, or are you mostly self trained? Just curious.
*For the record I've yet do hear any logical explanation for the trainwreak on post #32?
You mentioned that you developed the "strangle" cut for those tops that you couldn't reach with your bucket, and were to tall to fit in your lay. Why not climb the fucking thing, have someone else climb it, and/or rig it right. Nope that sounds like hard work, and to sensible. Instead your doing this "strangle" slice cut from a bucket without rigging, simply because you couldn't reach any higher with your bucket, and were too fucking lazy to climb it? What could possible go wrong here? Eventually one of these slice cut tops is gonna comeback and clobber you, with nowhere to run or hide. That is the very definition of doing very stupid, lazy shit that will eventually kill someone.
When using the slice cut at height on upright leader/ tops we are usually tip tying to another rigging point so that they can be lowered straight down in a slow controlled manner, so as not to beat the living shit out of the climber. Using safe. proven, time tested, effective methods means just that. Is that not good enough for you?
Were you mentored by pro climbers and fallers when you were coming up, or are you mostly self trained? Just curious.
*For the record I've yet do hear any logical explanation for the trainwreak on post #32?
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