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I hate quick grapple saw trees...ones that take under 2 hours. I have not figured out how to fairly charge for them yet (both for me and the client). Sometimes it is too cheap to charge a 2 hour crane charge, and sometimes it is to expensive to charge a 2 hour minimum (I would prefer more of a 3 hour...but I sometimes use the crane on smaller stuff).

But I agree I don't like the "cheap" term you used. Before my grapple saw, I always figured a crane tree cost the same as a rigged tree (just one takes more time then the other). With the grapple saw it has made the trees even quicker, especially if I can do the whole trunk with it. So therefore it has become a bit cheaper at times.
 
Show up with a $300-400K rig, and it becomes "cheaper"?

How about when you blow a hose and are down for the day. If I blew a rope, I'd get one of 6 in the truck and keep going. You go rent a chipper if yours goes down. You rent a crane if needed, or a dump truck. There is no renting a grapple-saw nearby.

I hear my neighbor and another retired career PNW logger talking about loggers living on the amortization of their equipment, and when the end of the load in done, the feller-buncher or whatever is now worth about nothing.

My neighbor bought a feller-buncher for $5k, and fixed it up to be profitable.

Been at it for about 40-some years. Seen lots of machinery. Says he shoulda been a better business-man. Better on the pencil than the saw. That's pretty set prices for what you deliver to the mill. Not really negotiable. fwiw



I have started adding a tip into bids, since the work we do, we deserve it...really that just means the boss (me) needs to charge more.

Lifting steel is pretty much an hourly job.
Taking down that rotten, rotten tree for the same hourly as a live, low-risk tree doesn't make sense to me.

Maybe a hazard charge, tbd at time of the bid.
 
southsoundtree said:
Taking down that rotten, rotten tree for the same hourly as a live, low-risk tree doesn't make sense to me.

Maybe a hazard charge, tbd at time of the bid.
Click to expand...

Hoses aren't to hard of a fix (obviously depending on where the hose is). Most guys carry extra hoses for the grapple. My crane shop is 15 mins away, so other hoses I can get replaced pretty quickly.

I charge a premium for dead/hazardous tree's. 1. Because the crane is needed (since customer waited so long) 2. Because we are booked out 6 months in advance, and now we have to bump our schedule.
 
southsoundtree said:
Not hoses, but one sensor goes funny, and you're probably done until fixed.

Hoses were a poor example.
Click to expand...

True, but I go back to my shop is 15 mins away. I've had a tech out several times already...the more I learn about the crane the less I have to take this drastic step.

True that tree guys have 2 or more of mist tools, and that isn't possible with a crane usually. But neither can you do 2-3, or more, jobs in a day without a crane. So a break down everyone in awhile isn't a major thing. If saw goes out you can still sling brush and wood
 
climbhightree said:
True, but I go back to my shop is 15 mins away. I've had a tech out several times already...the more I learn about the crane the less I have to take this drastic step.

True that tree guys have 2 or more of mist tools, and that isn't possible with a crane usually. But neither can you do 2-3, or more, jobs in a day without a crane. So a break down everyone in awhile isn't a major thing. If saw goes out you can still sling brush and wood
Click to expand...
I have two saws too
 
southsoundtree said:
Show up with a $300-400K rig, and it becomes "cheaper"?

How about when you blow a hose and are down for the day. If I blew a rope, I'd get one of 6 in the truck and keep going. You go rent a chipper if yours goes down. You rent a crane if needed, or a dump truck. There is no renting a grapple-saw nearby.

I hear my neighbor and another retired career PNW logger talking about loggers living on the amortization of their equipment, and when the end of the load in done, the feller-buncher or whatever is now worth about nothing.

My neighbor bought a feller-buncher for $5k, and fixed it up to be profitable.

Been at it for about 40-some years. Seen lots of machinery. Says he shoulda been a better business-man. Better on the pencil than the saw. That's pretty set prices for what you deliver to the mill. Not really negotiable. fwiw



I have started adding a tip into bids, since the work we do, we deserve it...really that just means the boss (me) needs to charge more.

Lifting steel is pretty much an hourly job.
Taking down that rotten, rotten tree for the same hourly as a live, low-risk tree doesn't make sense to me.

Maybe a hazard charge, tbd at time of the bid.
Click to expand...
I will be changing the wording in the video and I’ll upload it when I do. I really appreciate the insight.
 
southsoundtree said:
Not hoses, but one sensor goes funny, and you're probably done until fixed.

Hoses were a poor example.
Click to expand...
I had a 23' hose expold last year, luckily it was in the street! At first i was scared to tackle it. But i tied a rope to one end and pulled it through the boom down to valve body. At 6,000 psi it was not cheap. Having a shop do it, would have put me down for at least a week.
 
southsoundtree said:
Show up with a $300-400K rig, and it becomes "cheaper"?

How about when you blow a hose and are down for the day. If I blew a rope, I'd get one of 6 in the truck and keep going. You go rent a chipper if yours goes down. You rent a crane if needed, or a dump truck. There is no renting a grapple-saw nearby.

I hear my neighbor and another retired career PNW logger talking about loggers living on the amortization of their equipment, and when the end of the load in done, the feller-buncher or whatever is now worth about nothing.

My neighbor bought a feller-buncher for $5k, and fixed it up to be profitable.

Been at it for about 40-some years. Seen lots of machinery. Says he shoulda been a better business-man. Better on the pencil than the saw. That's pretty set prices for what you deliver to the mill. Not really negotiable. fwiw



I have started adding a tip into bids, since the work we do, we deserve it...really that just means the boss (me) needs to charge more.

Lifting steel is pretty much an hourly job.
Taking down that rotten, rotten tree for the same hourly as a live, low-risk tree doesn't make sense to me.

Maybe a hazard charge, tbd at time of the bid.
Click to expand...
Exactly my point..20190509_112600.webp$1500 for the whole block. This is where the fun starts..
 
I'm over 2000 hrs on my boom. After your 2nd year you will quickly realize how much fun these are.. Many guys have had to replace every hose after the 2 year mark!
 
The video gets the point across pretty well, but I'd like to add to the improvement tips from a cinematographic point of view. You used one stationary camera angle, which is of course pretty boring over all. Maybe you could add some shots of saws in action (Maybe even some flying sawdust if you dont advertise yourself as leaving no trace) before/between the main points, and a shot of the lift extending at the beginning of the video?
If you wanted to make your video more professional you could also rent a better camera for a day, I recommend a black magic pocket cinema camera, you can get one for as little as 35$/day.
Oh, and a word about advertising/broadcasting this video: The best place to do that would probably be Facebook. You can advertise there relatively cheaply and reach people from just your area, you might even be able to specify a specific consumer age, just put in your average customers age there.
 
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climbhightree said:
I hate quick grapple saw trees...ones that take under 2 hours. I have not figured out how to fairly charge for them yet (both for me and the client). Sometimes it is too cheap to charge a 2 hour crane charge, and sometimes it is to expensive to charge a 2 hour minimum (I would prefer more of a 3 hour...but I sometimes use the crane on smaller stuff).

But I agree I don't like the "cheap" term you used. Before my grapple saw, I always figured a crane tree cost the same as a rigged tree (just one takes more time then the other). With the grapple saw it has made the trees even quicker, especially if I can do the whole trunk with it. So therefore it has become a bit cheaper at times.
Click to expand...

When I’m subbed I charge a 3 hour minimum portal to portal $200 per hour
 
CanaryBoss said:
When I’m subbed I charge a 3 hour minimum portal to portal $200 per hour
Click to expand...

For just your crane truck. Goes the rest of your guys and equipment have the same 3 hour min?

I'm charging around 340-440 (regular vs hazard) for crane, 2 men, chipper, chip truck and mini skid. If I'm doing a no cleanup, with just the crane I do around 170...and have no issue with 3 hour min then.
 
That’s just crane and operator. Otherwise we don’t bill by the hour but by the job. We do up to 15k a day in tree work. My big crews usually do around 4500 a day but I can increase that by 50% easily you with the crane
 
I have determined over the last few weeks with the crane, that I can either do 50% more work, use 50% less people, or get done in 50% of the time
 
Jan_ said:
The video gets the point across pretty well, but I'd like to add to the improvement tips from a cinematographic point of view. You used one stationary camera angle, which is of course pretty boring over all. Maybe you could add some shots of saws in action (Maybe even some flying sawdust if you dont advertise yourself as leaving no trace) before/between the main points, and a shot of the lift extending at the beginning of the video?
If you wanted to make your video more professional you could also rent a better camera for a day, I recommend a black magic pocket cinema camera, you can get one for as little as 35$/day.
Oh, and a word about advertising/broadcasting this video: The best place to do that would probably be Facebook. You can advertise there relatively cheaply and reach people from just your area, you might even be able to specify a specific consumer age, just put in your average customers age there.
Click to expand...
I’m going to get some super sweet video the saw coming out tomorrow and do a time lapse video of the boom unfolding and extending
 
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