Sounds knarly and super dangerous....with a runner I like my tail always below me. With a wrench I could care less.
Post accident discussion
- Thread starter Tom Dunlap
- Start date
In the old days before the stiff tether a RW had the same risk of getting pushed/pulled down far enough to disengage the hitch grab. Stiff tethers now prevent such contact. A RW can't create drag force without tension on the rope and normally the hitch creates the tension - no hitch, no force.
ghostice
Been here a while
Been said before - acceleration due to gravity is a squared dimension. Just for fun sometime, maybe seek out your local Alpine Club Chapter and take part in one of their fall arrest/ belayer practice sessions if you get a chance. Not sport climbing top roped - that's easy. I'm talking trying to belay a 180 lb dummy on a 25 foot whipper or so, even with a dynamic rope. With static ropes like those used for treework, the yank is even harder. You will be amazed at the forces involved.
Alpine belays are done with things like a Black Diamond ATC or the like which "intrinsically" put a bend in the rope for friction, unlike Alkimbo or RRP which probably need to be extended to engage and get the bend for friction. Similar with the Uni - there's a straight thru rope path to a down real quick like. Cheers.
Alpine belays are done with things like a Black Diamond ATC or the like which "intrinsically" put a bend in the rope for friction, unlike Alkimbo or RRP which probably need to be extended to engage and get the bend for friction. Similar with the Uni - there's a straight thru rope path to a down real quick like. Cheers.
ghostice
Been here a while
So Kevin, would running the rope thru a biner on say your leg loop (so the rope stays channeled below the RRP and your bridge, work to engage the RRP right away? YouTube has a video on this somewhere (not my idea) but they use an accessory biner rather than a rated one. I wanted to try this sometime. Whatcha think?
treebing
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Detroit, Mi.
I dont really even think about it. I like dragging tail with my runner. It is why there is a pulley there. because i like dragging tail. . If you know about it, its not a problem. If you don't know about it, it could be a problem. Any sort of deflection such as an accessory biner eliminates it, but it seems a bit overkill in my opinion.
- Location
- PA
By reading the article (from 2021) It looks like someone else had a fall recently. The latest comment is from Thursday.
If I understand it correctly, the user was lowering himself on a 3:1? Was this unintentional ? I'm trying to determine why you would lower yourself via a 3:1...
If I understand it correctly, the user was lowering himself on a 3:1? Was this unintentional ? I'm trying to determine why you would lower yourself via a 3:1...
treebing
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Detroit, Mi.
It is only something you could do with a collapsed runner. You are bassically holding your runner open via the rope, like you would a unicender top. With a wrap.
treebing
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Detroit, Mi.
I had not heard of the fall in The comment section of the article. That could be a different scenario.
- Location
- PA
I guess I was thinking of it from a rope access perspective. You're either in ascent mode (usually from RADS/3:1) or descent mode (ISC D4, Rig etc).
In tree work, a climber might use a 3:1 for a haul-back, not a RADS, when descending out a long drooping limb. Personally, the RRP is the only climbing device I don't enjoy using in this particular situation.
Nah Kev, a pulley is there to tend slack lololol. I will drag tail all day with a wrench. But a hitch is different. The runner can collapse draggin tail if you are not careful. My climbstyle would get away with it, but not sure I feel comfortable doing it the same way as a wrench.....now I got the pro I will drag some tail see whats up....
I watched a guy say he won’t run a Wrench in SRS because he’s afraid the hitch won’t grab. Then I watched him climb up a bit on his VT in a MRS. Every single time he came to a stop, he had to manually set his hitch. I thought it was a bit hypocritical, but didn’t choose to point it out to him.
End of the day, actually, also at the beginning of the day, you really have to understand all the workings of your life support systems…their functions, their limitations, the manufacturer recommendations…use it and care for it properly.
moss
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Carlisle, Massachusetts, U.S.
Ha! That's why the climber in question won't trust his hitch SRS, he can't trust it for his MRS setup. His nudge to set the MRS hitch is so ingrained I don't think he's fully aware that he's correcting a "slight" (or worse) problem with his hitch configuration. Or... it is possible his last gesture loading the hitch has to do with reducing sit-back.
I nudge my hitch up all the time SRS when I've reached a point of destination or loading up the system to rest or take a look around during ascent. Not because the hitch won't set, but because I can greatly reduce or eliminate sit-back progress loss.
-AJ
Last edited:
One important fact we need to understand is a hitch should be able to set itself properly without wrench added. Then add the wrench. Many do not follow this recommendation. Awe well feel free to free fall. Just saying.
evo
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- My Island, WA
Arguably this is a good habit. With any system.
Probably don’t even have to argue that setting a hitch or any kind is a good habit, just not how the systems are “supposed” to work.
Prior to lift off with a rope hitch in SRS, I found that tying, dressing and setting on a slack system would have you thinking the configuration worked well. I also always found that subtle rope diameter reduction from elongation when rope walking would keep that same hitch from performing as it did on the slack rope before the climb.
It’s similar to what @treebing was saying…you have to be able to let go for the kit to work. It’s why I prefer footlocking on anything other than a long ascent…easy to let go. Also easy like @evo says to just set it manually, which I always did when standing on a foot ascender.
Prior to lift off with a rope hitch in SRS, I found that tying, dressing and setting on a slack system would have you thinking the configuration worked well. I also always found that subtle rope diameter reduction from elongation when rope walking would keep that same hitch from performing as it did on the slack rope before the climb.
It’s similar to what @treebing was saying…you have to be able to let go for the kit to work. It’s why I prefer footlocking on anything other than a long ascent…easy to let go. Also easy like @evo says to just set it manually, which I always did when standing on a foot ascender.
In the early floppy tether SRT days I used to set my RW rather than the hitch a) because it was riding the top of the hitch b) because if the RW doesn't get it's chance to rotate it's angle and put the bend into the rope it's like it's not there - hitch gets all the load. In my case I could set the RW just enough so the hitch would sit back enough more to have the RW bend the rope. Ah, the hand bruises memories. Enter the 10" stiffy and tethers changed 
Original RW instructions emphasized proper independent hitch operation. (grabbing)
Original RW instructions emphasized proper independent hitch operation. (grabbing)
ghostice
Been here a while
So to revisit tree work archives a bit maybe, here's a way to have a 3:1 for a limb walk, with a RRP and still have a tailing line outta the Runner? Quick and easy to setup and retrievable SCAMS from Free Fallin years ago . . Owww
I find that a redirect is needed to support my weight once I get there so unweighting/lanyarding in is off the table, defeating such schemes. Well thought out for it's application however. Also you lose the balance contribution during non-tensioned retrieval.
Matias
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Butte County
Yea, it seems like a SCAM to me
