Post accident discussion

Mick Dempsey said:
It‘s so pompous and self aggrandising
I won’t fight you, who in their right mind would fight an industrial athlete after all?
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Ha ha ha.....true I was trying some humour. Thought as a Brit you would get it...I am married to a Brit afterall, she is funny as hell. Industrial athlete comes from working at height diciplines, I really have only heard it used in America. I kinda like it, but now you have put a different spin on it. Lord maybe I am a tad pompous, might have to start smoking cigars in a smoking jacket. Lol
 
islandarb said:
Ha ha ha.....true I was trying some humour. Thought as a Brit you would get it...I am married to a Brit afterall, she is funny as hell. Industrial athlete comes from working at height diciplines, I really have only heard it used in America. I kinda like it, but now you have put a different spin on it. Lord maybe I am a tad pompous, might have to start smoking cigars in a smoking jacket. Lol
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you’d look rather dashing in an ascot brut.
 
So the accident that caused this particular notification, as far as we can tell, the climber dropped through a redirect and had his hand on the tail, he was in fact lowering himself on the 3:1. In that configuration the rope is going through your hands three times as fast as a 1:1. The runner was in a collapsed position, and he started to lose control, if he had let the rope go, he would have stopped but he panicked and by maintaining pressure on the tail, it whipped through his hands at a high rate of speed, burning his hands and dropping him to the ground.

I personally drop through redirects all the time and dont think anything of it. I rarely use a 3:1 but I occasionally do and also have no qualms about doing it.

I think if you are aware of the issue it is easily mitigated. If you are not aware and it catches you by surprise and you panic and you are holding onto the tail keeping the runner collapsed, you can go for a slide.

Play around with it low and slow. It is the panic response that is problematic as it is difficult to let go when your panicking. Letting go, you will stop.

The other danger with the runner which is the same as the akimbo and the uni and bdb is falling into it or hooking it with your body or a caritool unintentionally.
 
treebing said:
So the accident that caused this particular notification, as far as we can tell, the climber dropped through a redirect and had his hand on the tail, he was in fact lowering himself on the 3:1. In that configuration the rope is going through your hands three times as fast as a 1:1.
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Just a comment - in alpine belaying, we've always worn gloves, same as working ground for rigging off a porty. Both cases, gloves are leather. I climb trees with rubber faced gloves (harder than leather to let rope slide thru), but alpine belays are done with leather gloves - always. I think in scenarios like this climbing bare handed, while definately cooler in summer, makes it easier to lose control if bad things happen. Not sure if the fellow who experienced the accident was gloved or not (maybe small point but it's my industrial fatality investigation pickiness rearing it's head again). Maybe something else to think about. My two cents this AM. Cheers.
 
treebing said:
... The runner was in a collapsed position, and he started to lose control, if he had let the rope go, he would have stopped but he panicked and by maintaining pressure on the tail, it whipped through his hands at a high rate of speed, burning his hands and dropping him to the ground...
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How come, if he was holding on to the tail of a 3:1 haul-back setup, he wasn't able to stop his fall? It is very easy to hold body weight on a 3:1, that is why we use them.

If he wasn't holding on tight enough to stop the fall, shouldn't the runner have ingaged at some point?
 
I've played around with it, I was able to recreate it. It's the speed of the rope. If you let go slowly, like you would with one hand, the runner stays disengaged but your hand is on it. you quickly reach full speed and the Rope is moving 3 times faster than your falling, you can lose control, especially bare handed. Try it low and slow. You can try to grab it but it's like trying to stop a moving bag of cement by a rope but the rope is moving three times faster than gravity. Because you've panicked, you are maintaining enough pressure on the runner to keep it disengaged but not stop yourself. If you let go and take off all pressure from the tail, you will stop. I have also recreated this.
 
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