ghostice
Been here a while
Not sure where the all the lines are these days on multicenders but for RADS there's also things like Petzl ID and ISC D4. SPRAT folk use these in RADS for rescue, etc.
Post accident discussion
- Thread starter Tom Dunlap
- Start date
moss
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Carlisle, Massachusetts, U.S.
Those are all better/optimal for RADS
-AJ
Seems a good time to bring up the hitch with a twist thing to ensure the
"engagementness" of your hitch if using stiffer hitch cord, which is probably most hitch cords these days. Supple hitch cord seems to trigger its grab more consistently, I've found.
"engagementness" of your hitch if using stiffer hitch cord, which is probably most hitch cords these days. Supple hitch cord seems to trigger its grab more consistently, I've found.
The Bulldog Bone works very well in a haul-back system, as does the Akimbo, and the HitchHiker's. Of those, I believe the HH is the only 'true' straight-through multicender.
moss
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Carlisle, Massachusetts, U.S.
Makes sense! When I say "straight-through" I mean "might have a little crook in it at the bird" ;-) I define "straight-through" as a device that can be moved up a rope when the user is loading the tail with a foot or knee ascender. Grigri's, and other handled belay or rappel devices do not have a straight path and can't be moved up the rope under load without setting up a RADS or climbing the hard way: pulling up on the tail.
-AJ
Sprucinator
New member
- Location
- Northern IL
I use this somewhat often with my RRP for limb walks and yes as long as the third leg of line (what you pull down on) is held tight, the runner will not engage. However, it will engage if you let go entirely to where slack developes in the line along the backside of the runner. Ive spent a lot of time practicing and testing this method. I always push the bird up when using this just in case it doesn't catch.
That being said, unless the climbers tail was held taught underneath something, it doesn't sound like that was what made him fall.
Since you've practiced a lot, ever try placing the pulley on the tree somewhere with a sling (as opposed to attaching it to the rope) to increase the angles and keep that leg of rope off the back of the RRP? Seems like ensuring the RRP grabs without a push on the bird would be helpful when you need to keep one hand free for balance or due to lack of traction. Hanging the pulley on the tree is less convenient and reduces efficiency, but might be worth it in some situations.
I'm in agreement that this arrangement wasn't involved in the accident based on the reports.
Sprucinator
New member
- Location
- Northern IL
Oooo thats a great idea. I'm sure it's effectiveness depends on the structure of the tree but I can see how in same case it might improve stability when walking back in by triangulation of the support points. Thanks!
ghostice
Been here a while
Dan I save the winter for playing around with things a bit and have looked at the RRP collapse issue with a new RRP (Black Friday sale - the thing is stamped with a manufacture date of 2022 yet!). A comment is that I've been able to get a 3:1 to work fine if the rope angle to the upper pulley/ TIP keeps the rope away from the RRP pulley when under load (it didn't seem to matter when it wasn't loaded up fully with my weight). However as I went out further on the branch, the angle became less and less until at some point it was getting closer to the RRP pulley than I liked. Return to previous problem. There was a comment on this made in a recent YouTube video by Zaccheus at about 14:45 in the video - he makes a comment about the RRP and the tailing line diagram on P11 of the RRP manual. And then there is the issue of an unplanned fall as in the TCIA document, leaving the tail above the RRP climber. There's also a YouTube video where a guy uses a small accessory biner clipped onto his rope bridge pulley to keep the rope below the RRP pulley - not sure how this would work in a fall.
Interestingly, the TCIA document also mentions an accident like this with the Akimbo, which isn't mentioned in the movie. I've really mulled this more the last week in my head and have come down on the side, for me, of a Hitchclimber pulley or zig zag DdRT style (or even ISC D4 or Petzl ID). Haven't heard any more comment from @treebing either. Not much work to tow up a second line and rig up a moving rope. And some places (e.g. France) require a second line anyway. Be careful out there. Cheers.
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That is untrue, a very very accomplished arb friend of mine fell on a collapsed hitch. He got lucky, but was pretty broken. Back in trees now.
Was he using a hitch with a Wrench? Just out of curiosity.
Yes.....
Treeaddict
Participating member
- Location
- Bel Air
You just pull yourself back in? That’s what I do. Use the akimbo on srt and it self tends pretty well as I go hand over hand. I’m too lazy to carry and set up a 3:1 I suppose.
Matias
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Butte County
Same
southsoundtree
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Olympia, WA
One pulley-biner?
The same one that is useful for hauling,
and a quick MA, or redirect to be able use a foot ascender, to lift a stuck limb being rigged,
Ergonomic, IME
The same one that is useful for hauling,
and a quick MA, or redirect to be able use a foot ascender, to lift a stuck limb being rigged,
Ergonomic, IME
Treeaddict
Participating member
- Location
- Bel Air
Yup, too lazy to carry and set up one pulley biner! I just muscle my way through. I do have a 20’ lanyard that I’ll use as a drt line attached to the tip of the limb to help ease back towards the trunk while avoiding a potential swing. If I was in a tree everyday, the muscling is potentially a different story depending upon how my body would react. I hand over hand up to a 50 cc saw and a pulley is only used for larger which is rare.
ghostice
Been here a while
I do find, from time to time, I'll use a 3:1 on downward sloping skinny bouncy snow or slush covered limbs - often on trees with minimal high TIPs. I find it gives me a sense of more control than just stripping rope thru a pulley or mechanical. I pine for the long fat sturdy limbs I see folks working on out east - they seem like a sidewalk compared to the twigs I get stuck with on a lot of jobs. Anyway to each their own. Whatever way we do it, I keep seeing a bunch of comments and stuff about capturing a fall, staying safe in a fall, etc. But in the ANSI Z - "don't ever fall" and "work positioning" are the bywords. Cheers all
(Gads this is my 1000th post - sorry to everyone for having to put up with me . . . )
Yes do not fall....do not slip.....do not unintentionally swing.....are key. Every movement needs to be intentional and well thought out, hence why we are industrial athletes.
