Petzl Zig Zag update, again...

I have been running it with a wrench and its great. It feeds slack like no hitch I've ever used. With the correct tether you'd really have to be trying to have the wrench sit down in the friction chain of the zz.
 
One of the things I forgot to try when I owned a Rope Wrench was to try it with the Zillon. If anyone has both of them and feels adventurous give it a try and post the results. I'm thinking without the swivel pin to worry about that it may work well. The zillon grabs well so I think it might be worth a look.
 
DSMc, I think you're right.

Here's the text I received from Petzl ...

Yes the Zigzag can be used as a positioning tool similar to the Grillon. Please take a look at the tech notice. On page 5 it illustrates how the device can be used for work positioning.

Tech Notice Link:
http://www.petzl.com/files/all/technical-notice/Pro/D22-ZIGZAG.pdf
Best,
Conrad Wentzel
After Sales and Service Technician
Petzl, America
Office #: 801.926.1595 extension 7295
Email: cwentzel@petzl.com
The information in this message is intended solely for the attention of the named addressee and may be confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, you have received this e-mail in error and any use of it is prohibited. In such a case please notify the sender and delete this message.
On Tue, Aug 5, 2014 at 12:44 PM, Sarah Silverman<ssilverman@petzl.com> wrote:
Sarah Silverman
Front Office Administrator
Petzl America
801.926.1500
ssilverman@petzl.com
www.petzl.com

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Tom@Hoffmann.net <Tom@hoffmann.net>
Date: Tue, Aug 5, 2014 at 9:51 AM
Subject: Zig Zag application question
To: info@petzl.com


Thomas Hoffmann sent a message using the contact form at
http://www.petzl.com/us/pro/contact_info.

Type : individual.

Mail : Tom@Hoffmann.net.

Country : United States.

Can the Petzl Zig Zag be used safely as a lanyard adjuster, similar to the
Grilion?

I note that when the head end of the lanyard is attached to the hip
opposite the Zig Zag, the Zig Zag body re-orients and the swivel pin moves
against the stop limit of travel. Is this any safety issue? Does this
application place the device in "SRT" mode that is explicitly proscribed in
your instructions?

Thank you for a thoughtful response. I intend to post this information on
blogs and one YouTube. I think the Zig Zag is an awesome piece of design
work but, given some of the early problems, I think it's very important to
get the potential applications absolutely right.

Thank you.
Tom Hoffmann
Tom@Hoffmann.net
YouTube.com/user/tghoffmann
​
Click to expand...
 
I think they completely missed the technicalities of your question Tom and just gave you the "Read you manual" version. Page 5 does show the Zigzag and the Zillon being used for work positioning in the broad sense. They work great together as they are shown, I use them that way all the time. However there is no way I would ever use the Zig as a Lanyard adjuster as we are talking about here. Bottom line is I don't think they have a clue what exactly you were asking them.
 
X2. If you could talk to the right person you'd find the expert you need but I'd follow up with them oldfart. They need to know that could be an injurious mistake they made by telling you that.

Good eye DSMc.
 
I just reread all the manuals for the ZigZag and the #1 rule is never run it in anything that mimics SRT or single point attachment. Of course they also say you can use it in a closed loop system similar to Tom's Uni version, I have tried that and it is very unforgiving. Perfect prussic placement and all is good, if not then it is no better than SRT with it. In fact it may be worse because the friction changes depending where the loop and prussic are at any given time during the climb.
 
It does say that it can be used with a munter hitch or something like it in the case of an emergency descent. I don't know why you would ever try something in an emergency that you wouldn't do in normal life, but I interpreted that part of the instructions as saying that the zig zag is okay to use in conjunction with a rope wrench as the rope wrench would act no different than a munter.
 
I think it is better actually. The Wrench provides relatively consistent friction when engaged, the Munter hitch, well we all know how that goes sometimes. I don't personally like the Wrench Zig combo but that is just me and not the fault of either product on their own. I do want to try that combo with a Zillon though, the swivel on the Zig and where it ends up is what I don't like with that combo. Or an Aluminum tether that holds the Zig on the angle I want it, but that is still in the works.
 
TreeLogic said:
Just read their text msg Tom and I think I know what the problem is. Apparently Sarah Silverman is the Front Office Administrator :)

"On Tue, Aug 5, 2014 at 12:44 PM, Sarah Silverman<ssilverman@petzl.com> wrote:
Sarah Silverman
Front Office Administrator
Petzl America
801.926.1500
ssilverman@petzl.com
www.petzl.com"
Click to expand...

Thanks for this info, I have been writing since the 23 of July with NO response, (other than automated that we got your mail).
I will try this info.
 
monkeylove said:
Rich, did you ever get a new one or are you still waiting for a response?
Click to expand...
Still waiting for an answer. To me that is the disappointment I have with the product and shows a significant reflection on the company.
It has been 2 weeks and 2 automated responses and what I thought was a significant concern. No wonder so many are negative in response.
 
Thanks, guys. I agree.
I've gone back with this question ...

Conrad,
Thank you for your quick and courteous reply. Terrific customer support!
Since my question involves life support and your answers will be in the public domain, I want to be absolutely certain that we are communicating precisely.

Regarding your statement that the Zig Zag can safely be used as a lanyard adjuster for work positioning, I note that the referenced Page 5 illustration seems to show the Grillon in that position, not the Zig Zag. Do you stand by the guidance that using a Zig Zag as a lanyard adjuster would be a safe application of the device?

Could you please address, specifically, my concern as to whether your published proscription against SRT configuration (Item 1, Page 1 of the device instructions) applies to the lanyard application. As I mentioned, this use causes the body of the device to re-orient and causes the swivel pin the move hard against its travel stop limit. So to rephrase my original question in more technical terms: will the Zig Zag still pass all relevant PPE safety standards when it’s load is carried against the travel stop of the swivel pin?

Thank you again for your attention and support on this question.
Tom Hoffmann

I'm thinking this will move up the chain to engineering review, but remember that Europe is basically gone this month ... !

OF
 
And the answer is ... don't use it as a lanyard adjuster...

Hi Tom,
So I double checked the tech notice on page 5. That was actually the zillon product being used for work positioning. You can view that product here: http://www.petzl.com/en/pro/verticality/lanyards-and-energy-absorbers/specialized-lanyards/zillon

Yes you are correct. The zigzag must not be used on a single line of rope as shown in figure 1 on page 1 of the tech notice. In regards to work positioning, we recommend using a zillon or grillon for work positioning and using the zigzag as your main safety line.
Best,
Conrad Wentzel
After Sales and Service Technician
Petzl, America
Office #: 801.926.1595 extension 7295
Email: cwentzel@petzl.com
The information in this message is intended solely for the attention of the named addressee and may be confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, you have received this e-mail in error and any use of it is prohibited. In such a case please notify the sender and delete this message.
On Thu, Aug 7, 2014 at 5:53 AM, Tom Hoffmann <Tom@hoffmann.net> wrote:
Conrad,
Thank you for your quick and courteous reply. Terrific customer support!
Since my question involves life support and your answers will be in the public domain, I want to be absolutely certain that we are communicating precisely.
Regarding your statement that the Zig Zag can safely be used as a lanyard adjuster for work positioning, I note that the referenced Page 5 illustration seems to show the Grillon in that position, not the Zig Zag. Do you stand by the guidance that using a Zig Zag as a lanyard adjuster would be a safe application of the device?
Could you please address, specifically, my concern as to whether your published proscription against SRT configuration (Item 1, Page 1 of the device instructions) applies to the lanyard application. As I mentioned, this use causes the body of the device to re-orient and causes the swivel pin the move hard against its travel stop limit. So to rephrase my original question in more technical terms: will the Zig Zag still pass all relevant PPE safety standards when it’s load is carried against the travel stop of the swivel pin?
Thank you again for your attention and support on this question.
Tom Hoffmann
From: Conrad Wentzel [mailto:cwentzel@petzl.com]
Sent: Tuesday, August 5, 2014 3:13 PM
To: Tom@hoffmann.net
Subject: Re: Zig Zag application question
Yes the Zigzag can be used as a positioning tool similar to the Grillon. Please take a look at the tech notice. On page 5 it illustrates how the device can be used for work positioning.

Tech Notice Link:
http://www.petzl.com/files/all/technical-notice/Pro/D22-ZIGZAG.pdf
Best,
Conrad Wentzel
After Sales and Service Technician
Petzl, America
Office #: 801.926.1595 extension 7295
Email: cwentzel@petzl.com
The information in this message is intended solely for the attention of the named addressee and may be confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, you have received this e-mail in error and any use of it is prohibited. In such a case please notify the sender and delete this message.
On Tue, Aug 5, 2014 at 12:44 PM, Sarah Silverman <ssilverman@petzl.com> wrote:
Sarah Silverman
Front Office Administrator
Petzl America801.926.1500
ssilverman@petzl.com
www.petzl.com
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Tom@Hoffmann.net <Tom@hoffmann.net>
Date: Tue, Aug 5, 2014 at 9:51 AM
Subject: Zig Zag application question
To: info@petzl.com


Thomas Hoffmann sent a message using the contact form athttp://www.petzl.com/us/pro/contact_info.

Type : individual.

Mail : Tom@Hoffmann.net.

Country : United States.

Can the Petzl Zig Zag be used safely as a lanyard adjuster, similar to the
Grilion?

I note that when the head end of the lanyard is attached to the hip
opposite the Zig Zag, the Zig Zag body re-orients and the swivel pin moves
against the stop limit of travel. Is this any safety issue? Does this
application place the device in "SRT" mode that is explicitly proscribed in
your instructions?

Thank you for a thoughtful response. I intend to post this information on
blogs and one YouTube. I think the Zig Zag is an awesome piece of design
work but, given some of the early problems, I think it's very important to
get the potential applications absolutely right.

Thank you.
Tom HoffmannTom@Hoffmann.net
YouTube.com/user/tghoffmann​
 
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