Petzl Zig Zag update, again...

[Richard Mumford-yoyoman]

Thanks to the help of friend on the Buzz.


Hi Richard,

We have received the ZigZag you returned under RA 141733. Petzl wants to thank you again for your support in the Petzl brand and for your patience throughout this process.

A replacement Zigzag will be sent out to you on the next business day. We appreciate your patience.

Best,
Bryan Cox
Petzl America | After Sales and Service Department
801.926.1541

 

[TreeLogic]

Nice. Let us know when that one breaks Sorry, couldn't resist.

 

[Richard Mumford-yoyoman]

Sounds like recycling is the business to be in.

 

[treevet]

I have owned 4 now...the original and sent it back with no defect when the new one came out and oldies were recalled. Bought a ZZ2 during the wait...broke that one and it was replaced and the zz1 replacement rig has not been used yet but wonder if any changes have been made to the replacement units. Here is a good contact ...matt@petzl.com

 

[oldfart]

I want to use my ZigZag as a combo lanyard adjuster/climbing rig. I’m also interested in it for a “Climbing in a Loop” system and my uCLIMBER ddrt/static rig.

However, Petzl clearly prohibits use in SRT. Months ago, I emailed them and they answered with a polite “No, don’t use it”. The Zillon is the intended product and the ZigZag shouldn’t be deployed in a single rope configuration or as a lanyard adjuster.

I got some serious help with this conversation at TCI Hartford and I’d like to pass along the info …

Technically, there are three (3) issues why the ZZ is not suitable for SRT:

1. Link friction is inadequate for climber’s full weight
2. When the climbing line lead is detached, the ZZ body rotates counter clockwise. When used with running rope (SRT line passing thru the ZZ), this sets up a wear point and the line abrades the device as it exits.
3. Due to the rotation, the attachment swivel is driven hard against the limit of its travel in the slot, producing a bending force at the attachment.

However, Petzl has now released a technical bulletin approving the ZZ as a backup belay point when deployed with supplemental friction:

http://www.petzl.com/en/Professional/Second-belay-point-on-the-trunk--without-false-crotch--evacuation-system-with-the-ZIGZAG-in-single-mode-with-added-friction?ProductName=ZIGZAG&Familly=Descenders&l=US#.VGlBAPmG-Sp

This is called “Single Mode with Added Friction” and is considered an “expert only” setup.

I believe this opens the door to approving another expert mode … “Singe Mode at Half Weight”. I’m working with Petzl now to try to promote this approval.

In my “half-wit” configuration, the “inadequate friction” issue goes away because the ZZ only sees half the climber’s weight. The “abrasion” issue goes away too because there is comparatively very little motion of the rope through the device, certainly compared to full SRT climbing. The “bending” issue is still in play, but only at half the level that they have already approved in the existing tech bulletin. Furthermore, this bending force is self-limiting by the natural stiffness of the rope itself. It is not like bending a crab over a small branch.

In my video on TCIA Hartford, I show the new Petzl device they are using for bridge adjustment and, soon to be available, as a lanyard. Small. Elegant. Terrific idea. But I’m still hoping they embrace the ZZ for the lanyard application. I’ll keep you posted.

OF

 

[Richard Mumford-yoyoman]

Good work oldfart,
Question: It is rated at Doubled rope progression device for tree care. Maximum working load: 140 kg/one person.
So my assumption is, that will have to change, as it would be half that on a single line, 70 kg or about 154 pounds. The “Singe Mode at Half Weight” kind of leaves me out of the game. Making sure the device never sees over this amount, whether the RW or munter is implored my be difficult.

 

[oldfart]

I don't think so, Yoyo...

The "half-weight" idea means that 70 kg is going through the ZZ and another 70 kg are going through the return strand. Unless you're over 300 lbs, you're golden.

 

[islandarb]

With xmas coming it might make a lovely ornament just below the usual star....

 

[monkeylove]

I could decorate the whole tree with all the stuff I own, well if I moved some of it out of the living room so I could actually get the tree in the living room.

 

[treevet]

And the boat oar and bulldogs bone likely be the next ornament with a fickled tree climber audience always looking to be the Treebuzz forum debutant party gala best dressed lol.

 

[islandarb]

Davey...oh my...forgot you have had four...my apologies.......you will have the most awesome bling tree......let's eat

 

[treevet]

Is that an invitation to the TBuzz Gala Swing?...oh my! What do I wear...my bone, my zag, my uni?

 

[Richard Mumford-yoyoman]

Is that an invitation to the TBuzz Gala Swing?...oh my! What do I wear...my bone, my zag, my uni?

Here you go.

 

[treevet]

You MIGHT be limiting your potential mate for the evening lol

 

[Richard Mumford-yoyoman]

You MIGHT be limiting your potential mate for the evening lol

I don't know, some chicks like all that cordage for the evening.

 

[Mark Chisholm]

This thread is going sideways now..

 

[Richard Mumford-yoyoman]

This thread is going sideways now..

That's because nobody wants to talk about the ZZ unless it breaks.

 

[monkeylove]

I still love my Zig Zag Rich.

 

[Richard Mumford-yoyoman]

I still love my Zig Zag Rich.

Me too Frank, it lives on the far side and works well there.

 

[JeffGu]

I like them so much, I bought another one last month. And no, I'm not worried about falling. You can cut that half of the top link off with a grinder (the one prone to cracking) and it will still stop and hold you. The release lever will jam, so you'll need another way to get down. I don't go up unless I have another way down (other than the obvious, high-speed/sudden stop method).

I'm guessing that Petzl will deal with the issues and the product will find a lot of happy arborist homes down the road. They've made a LOT of climbing products over the years, and improved most of them from customer feedback. It's not like they're the only ones to have an issue or two crop up... here's a GM pulley I bought for light rigging redirects... it's fine except for just one little detail... they forgot to put the ball bearing unit in there! If I had used this at my anchor point on a climbing line... man, instant death. I ended up with two like this, from the same feeBay vendor, and pulled the other one apart. The sheave immediately tipped and jammed against the sideplates, the axle pulled right through on one side and the pieces went flying. This all happened early in the pull, and I believe around 1100 pounds. Scary, when you consider that stepping off a limb to swing to another one can generate that amount of force.