Normal rope wear?

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... A Friction Saver should be considered for the 11mm.

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That is a better way to put it than to say that you should stay away from 11mm lines when natural crotching. The smaller ropes do wear faster, but not fast. You'll still get your money's worth if you go natural while climbing with an 11mm.

I agree- use a false crotch of some sort. ANY line will last longer if you use a friction saver.

love
nick
 
Over the years I've seen many more new cnofigurations of rope have milking issues than not. It seems that within a few months the company gets the tension right on the machines and the issue goes away.

This is all part of the manufacturers trying to combine materials in new configurations to make our work easier. There is no way that I would ever want to go back to three strand natrual fiber rope and deal with all of the break-in issues with that. Same for Arborplex. Good rope and has stood the test of time. I expect better performance from my rope and I'll deal with some milking.
 
Milk is fine to a certain point, but when you have a 250# guy milking 15-18 feet off a 200' hank (especially on a rope that the manufacturer has just started making) this should make you ask some questions..... and when you ask some questions and the manufacturer admits that this is a problem..... well, the responsible thing to do is ask them to make it right... they needed feedback as well, if they don't know how the rope is performing, then how are they going to make it better?

rob

p.s. I'm not bashing the manufacturer, i LOVE the Blaze... use it every day /forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
You DON'T have to admit this is a problem. Tree guys use rope is a way that is quite abusive to the rope. 18' out of a 200' is 9%. But who cares if it's 1% or 15%. The first thing you should do when you get a new line is milk whatever cover you have, snip it out (zero out the rope yourself), then consider the issue resolved.

It's a bummer that people complain about milking a lot, and as a result, manufacturers end up spending time ($) trying to "improve" ropes that are already great. They could be spending that time on other things, and I'd rather not have to pay a little extra for a rope that was quite fine to begin with.

love
nick
 
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It's a bummer that people complain about milking a lot, and as a result, manufacturers end up spending time ($) trying to "improve" ropes that are already great. They could be spending that time on other things, and I'd rather not have to pay a little extra for a rope that was quite fine to begin with.

love
nick

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Great points Nick. I've been under the impression that a rope that milks a lot is a sign of poor design.

If I read you right the milking of a rope by the end user can almost be considered as a final step in the manufacturing process.

Dan
 
If you think about it though, 9% is a lot.... really that would mean that there is 9% less area to wear on the cover of the rope.... which would expose the core of the rope 9% earlier.... and thus the problem with too much milking, if the cover stretches too thin and is not stable enough to cover those precious core yarns, there could be some serious problems later... I’m not complaining about milking, I’m complaining about the cover not being stable enough in the earlier runs of the manufacturing process... like Tom said, most of these problems resolve themselves (by people that are knowledgeable about rope construction giving constructive criticism) and I hope that poison ivy is a better rope from my input.

Rob
 
I guess it would depend on the relative contribution of the core. Is it actually load-bearing or is it mostly there to maintain shape/body?
 
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If I read you right the milking of a rope by the end user can almost be considered as a final step in the manufacturing process.
...Dan

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Exactly.

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If you think about it though, 9% is a lot.... really that would mean that there is 9% less area to wear on the cover of the rope.... which would expose the core of the rope 9% earlier.... and thus the problem with too much milking, if the cover stretches too thin and is not stable enough to cover those precious core yarns, there could be some serious problems later...

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Ahhhh, it don't really work that way.

Here's my point- Poison Ivy seems to becoming a favorite rope of a lot of people. Maybe almost yourself. It'd be a shame to rob yourself of many, many happy days of climbing because of something you could of taken care of on your first day.

I'm ALL for encouraging the manufacturers to make things the way WE want/need them made. That's how better products are born. But it really seems people dwell unneccassarily on milking. Like you said, you sent the rope back. In ten minutes that rope would have been perfect to use for a long time.

love
nick
 
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I guess it would depend on the relative contribution of the core. Is it actually load-bearing or is it mostly there to maintain shape/body?

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the core of this rope is load-bearing....
 
Most polyester/polyester double braids share the load 50/50.
I'm pretty sure Poison Ivy, Blaze, Velocity, Pro-Lite 24 are polyester/polyester.

New Englands Fly is not a double braid, it has parallel fibers in the core. Not sure how the cover/core share the load.
 
The Core of the fly is the load-bearing part of the rope... as for the velocity and blaze, they have a Nylon core and a polyester cover.

rob

p.s. Nick, here is what i am talking about:

"At Yale Cordage, we're experts on rope - not on trees. That's why we've always relied on the input of tree experts like you to develop the finest, highest performance selection of arborist ropes and hardware available. So when you turn to Yale Cordage for top-quality arborist equipment, you can rest assured - our rope is designed by experts, for experts - to suit every climber's needs."

I took this from yale's website
 
Rob- what's your point.

If you can tell me that the 10 minutes it would have taken you to cut the excess cover off would not be worth, THEN I can admit that the ropes need to be properly balanced straight from the factory.

Or get a 12 strand. They CAN'T milk!

love
nick
 
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Or get a 12 strand. They CAN'T milk!

love
nick

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i hear that..... no real point i guess, i was just giving an opinion. and you know what they say about opinions... /forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif

so the real question, have you spliced the poison ivy yet? if you have, what did you think?
 
There have been break tests done on 16 strand kenrmantle ropes with and without the core. It is surprising how much strength comes from the core. I wish that I could recall what the numbers were. It wasn't as small a percentage as most people think. Most often climbers believe that the core of a 16 strand is only to keep it round.

There have been break tests done on kernmantle mountaineering ropes and the sheath holds a significant percentage. If anyone really wanted to know these specs I'm sure that that manufacturer would provide them.
 
Rob, you also stated the core of Blaze and velocity are nylon. I don't know about velocity, but I know the Blaze is polyester.

I have a sneaking suspicion the velocity is also an all polyester rope.

Splicing the poison ivy...tough, but the finished product is well worth it. Very tough, though. /forum/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

love
nick
 
I agree with Nick. Milking is normal on PI-that is why is is shipped with one end melted or spliced and one merely taped, It isn't a flaw it is part of the normal characteristics of the rope. I like the hand of the PI but can't compare with other smaller climbig lines since I haven't tried any but PI
 
Been using the blase, and just ordered the PI to try that out.If it runs through the rope guide as smoothe and is easier on the hands it could be a new favorite rope.
 
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