multi stem trees

[TreeVB]

I agree with both of these recent points. Structure pruning younger trees for apical dominance for "most" species in my area. I still view it as "structural pruning" when reducing lever arms of specific limbs on mature trees, but not so much as correcting the structure of the tree as a whole. Trying to correct the structure of a mature tree can cause way more damage than good for sure.

 

[JeffGu]

Intensive structural pruning of trees can improve their ability to hold up a coffee table.

 

[owScott]

I agree with both of these recent points. Structure pruning younger trees for apical dominance for "most" species in my area. I still view it as "structural pruning" when reducing lever arms of specific limbs on mature trees, but not so much as correcting the structure of the tree as a whole. Trying to correct the structure of a mature tree can cause way more damage than good for sure.

Reducing lever arms I refer to as end weight reduction. Thinning cuts , reduction cuts all effect the structure of a tree. " structure pruning " to me means subordinating competing leads to promote a central leader. Also structure pruning is generally for young trees. We are on the same page, but really helpful to discuss with other arborists how we refer to things.

 

[ppsavage]

Reducing lever arms I refer to as end weight reduction. Thinning cuts , reduction cuts all effect the structure of a tree. " structure pruning " to me means subordinating competing leads to promote a central leader. Also structure pruning is generally for young trees. We are on the same page, but really helpful to discuss with other arborists how we refer to things.

Thinning's been out of the standard for a few years now.

 

[oldoakman]

The standard is a guide. always has been. Just as the Z133 is a voluntary, industry produced document intended as a guide. The only time it is "law" is when the OSHA Compliance officer references it in the citation he is writing you. We are called on to care for our client's trees. Their trees are our "patients" and like a good physician we should and can treat each one as an individual and not make broad generalizations. Shigo's catch phrase was "Touch trees". How many of us really do "Touch" trees anymore. When was the last time you heard that phrase.

 

[ppsavage]

True, shigo is maybe the most misquoted and misunderstood guy since Einstein. How long ago did modern arb get published it seems like the message got lost.

 

[oldoakman]

True, shigo is maybe the most misquoted and misunderstood guy since Einstein. How long ago did modern arb get published it seems like the message got lost.

It took time and multiple exposures to Shigo to get to know him even a little bit but I am privileged to have had that opportunity. He was a very approachable person once you allowed yourself the opportunity for one on one conversation. I learned more from him in my brief encounters than any university classes could teach. There are a handful of people out there now that the younger generation SHOULD be listening to right now as well.

 

[Serf Life]

Thinning's been out of the standard for a few years now.

I read that as thinning cut back to a lateral, not thinning/cleaning a canopy. Apple pruning season here and constant decisons of what and how much to prune. It's like time travel, thinking about what the response will be this year and growth form three years from now.

 

[owScott]

I read that as thinning cut back to a lateral, not thinning/cleaning a canopy. Apple pruning season here and constant decisons of what and how much to prune. It's like time travel, thinking about what the response will be this year and growth form three years from now.

You are correct, I wrote thinning cut, not thinning as a standard.

 

[ppsavage]

The word thinning was removed from the a300 standard for a reason.

 

[Serf Life]

Ok, what is the new correct term for that cut?

 

[JD3000]

Thinning cut has been used interchangeably with a removal cut, taking a branch off at it's point of origin.

And yes, "thinning" a tree has been removed from the standard but doesn't mean the same thing as how some folks use the cut terminology.

 

[ppsavage]

I thought the point of having clear definitions of terms was for clear and accurate communication of concepts and ideas. If we can't all agree on pruning terms and what they mean what's the point of havin em? People are just supposed to infer that by thinning one actually means to say reduce?

 

[JD3000]

I thought the point of having clear definitions of terms was for clear and accurate communication of concepts and ideas. If we can't all agree on pruning terms and what they mean what's the point of havin em? People are just supposed to infer that by thinning one actually means to say reduce?

No, a thinning cut is a removal cut, not a reduction cut.

I prefer the term removal cut.

 

[ppsavage]

I read that as thinning cut back to a lateral

this to me sounds like a reduction cut? whereas the removal cut is back to the parent stem, not a lateral?

 

[DSMc]

... " structure pruning " to me means subordinating competing leads to promote a central leader...

Unfortunately, there are many within the industry that would agree with that definition. I say "unfortunately" because it gives no latitude or recognition that multi-leader trees can be just as correct.

 

[owScott]

Unfortunately, there are many within the industry that would agree with that definition. I say "unfortunately" because it gives no latitude or recognition that multi-leader trees can be just as correct.

By subordinating a competing leader you are just slowing the growth not removing the lead entirely therefore the tree remains a multi leader tree. Structure pruning isnt removing all but 1 leader from a multi leader tree leaving a single stem. Maybe i am misunderstanding your point but i am interpreting what you are saying as structure pruning makes a multi leader tree not a multi leader tree. Maybe we have a different definition of a multi leader tree. In the pictures in this discussion VB starts with a multi leader tree and after the pruning the tree still has multiple leaders right? Also a guideline gives latitude. This isnt a rigid equation there is room for latitude in how much to prune or not to prune at all. What is your definition of structure pruning? To advocate "structure pruning" isnt saying multi leader trees arent correct.

 

[owScott]

I thought the point of having clear definitions of terms was for clear and accurate communication of concepts and ideas. If we can't all agree on pruning terms and what they mean what's the point of havin em? People are just supposed to infer that by thinning one actually means to say reduce?

I agree.

 

[Wrangler]

Someone please correct me if I’m wrong, the way I understood latest revision of A300 is if you are making a coller cut at main trunk that is a “ branch removal cut”. If you are at a union on a limb and you cut off the smaller of the two srems you are making a “removal cut” previously called “thinning cut”. You are removing foliage but not reducing length of limb/leverage. A “reduction cut” would be if you are at a union and remove larger of two stems and remaining stem is at least 1/3 the size of stem removed, if it is smaller than 1/3 then you made a “heading cut”

 

[Wrangler]

Heading cut on left over building, reduction cuts on over extended limbs on right. Removal cuts on lower branches. I would have loved to reduce lower really long limb on right but dosage was getting kind of high, I’ll get it next time