Minimal climbing gear

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Many of the climbers that are working on this project have lanyards that have the looped adjuster. They adjust from 4-7" and the hitch is always on the back side of the tree. I would NEVER allow one on one of my climbers. Have the adjuster on the hip dee. If they can't make that change then they are sure going to fight with me when I expect proper collar cuts and false crotches. Maybe I have expectations that are too high. But, then again, I expect my dentist to have gotten rid of the tooth grinder that was driven by rubber belts...

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Tom

I think your expectations are a little high. Just about everyone started out with those lanyards. I know a 72 year old climber still useing one, and my boss still uses one.

How are you hiring these people? The better climbers will always have jobs they are comfortable in. I'd be more concerned about their work ethic and ability to learn , than their gear. New gear can always be bought, getting them to show up for work seems the hard part these days.

Your involved in these sites and competitions, you hang with like minded people. So i think you have blinders on in way. Every climber i have ever worked with , uses a tautline or a blakes. I have never seen a split tail used in real life. I can't be living in a vacume? I always have my eyes open , i like to play with gear so i'll always try stuff. I just choose the parts that work for me.
 
City,

Believe me, I realize which arbo-reality I work in now. The climbers are only required to have basic gear that meets standards. It surprises all of us that so few have throwlines or handsaws. many don't show up with helmets or glasses. If this is the reality of US arborculture it is a crying shame :(

Any lanyard is fine just as almost any harness and rope will pass muster. Lots of these climbers are a bit put-off when we do a gear check and DQ somethings that "I've been using for XX years!"
 
I see Tom's point. The climbers that take the time to upgrade there gear, usually means they take the time to continue to learn and not just stick with what works and is cheap. Most of the guys that I know don't have most of the items on this list. And it just so happens to be that they have become stagnant(sp?) climbers.

Does that mean I look down on the guys that are still climbing with no handsaws, using the basic butt strap saddle and a frayed rope wih a steel snap while using the end of there rope as their hitch? Yes it does. They don't know how much easier and safer there job and life could be.
 
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Believe me, I realize which arbo-reality I work in now. The climbers are only required to have basic gear that meets standards. It surprises all of us that so few have throwlines or handsaws. many don't show up with helmets or glasses. If this is the reality of US arborculture it is a crying shame :(


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Tom, it aint just the USA is a global phenomena. Whilst forestry and logging have a deep history urban arboriculture is only now evolving, I would say the last 15 years has had the most impact. There's a long way to go and if your horses are drinking that's a good start.
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forcing extra equipment on experienced climbers can be detrimental to moral. Do you take each climber's experience level into consideration when you make expectations of them? You can lead a horse to water....

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this is the first post that isn't written from dreamland.

what does it matter if a climber is still using old tech? if he is comfortable with it and does the job and is working safe how can you demand he waste his money on faddish gear that the mail order companys have most of you guys brainwashed into "must haves" ?
 
Think of it from a safety stand point there jonsered. I will just bring up one instance and that is a saddle. Buddy of mine 25 years ago was limbwalking out on a dead branch to set a line. The limb broke and his buttstrap saddle come up under his armpits. This also put his chainsaw right behind his back and then he banged into the trunk back first. And now 25 years later he still has back problems and at any moment he is out of work for weeks due to back pain. If he was using a saddle with leg straps this accident would still have happened but it wouldn't have ended the way it did.
 
I agree with the saddle, in fact leg straps might be considered old tech, I have one that is probably 25 yrs. old anyway. My point is that a climber need not be equiped with the latest gear from the "whats new" page of a mail order catalog to be deemed a good, safe and responsible climber or be a requirment to be hired as a climber.
 
Tom, I don't disagree with expectations. If you hire someone, you have the right to expect them to meet those expectations. I disagree fundamentally, however, with requiring workers to purchase equipment that they consider non-essential. This is why the impetus is on the employer to purchase any and all safety equipment. The end result is that they won't use the equipment anyway, and will resent you for requiring them to buy it. Maybe you could privately convince one of the climbers (who everyone respects) to try a bladder out. If he (she ) wears it, I'd expect that some other climbers would follow suit.
 
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Does that mean I look down on the guys that are still climbing with no handsaws, using the basic butt strap saddle and a frayed rope wih a steel snap while using the end of there rope as their hitch? Yes it does. They don't know how much easier and safer there job and life could be.

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LMAO!
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I do the same thing.

If that person says they have been climbing for XX years and then ask me, "Hey what's that you have on your saddle?" They loose credibility with me.

I had a 30 something year old guy come to my job site to ask if I'd give away fire wood. I said I would. He then told me he'd been climbing trees since he was 16 years old.
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As he gave me his verbal resume I simply nodded and said, "yeah, yep, uh-hah, okay, really, yeah, yep, uh-hah, okay..." Then he said, "you got some cool pulleys there." (Referring to the one on the FS and the Fixe on the climbing hitch).
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Tom will like this: There was a teachable moment there, I saw it. But, this guy was no longer in the trade, I was wrapping up an all day climb/trim, sun setting, etc... I basically cut the conversation short.

Anyway, back to the subject.
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"Minimal Climbing Gear?"

I climb with less than half of what you have mentioned in your list. I want to try the camelback system but I haven't had any problems having someone send up water while they are fueling my saw. I am not sure if I am diligent enough to clean out a backpack water bag every night.

I know I am not up with the times in climbing gear. Where I live and work, I seem like a man from the future wearing my Petzl helmet, using a wire core lanyard instead of a buck strap, carrying a hand saw and a pair of felcos.
 
I understand the sentiment Old Monkey, in the UK it would appear that the vast majority of people involved in the Arb industry would regard you as a 'gadget junky' for using a micro pulley!!
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This thread has given me some insights, thanks for moving it along.

The list I made has:

Helmet/basic PPE
Whistle
Harness
Rope w/snap or biner...split tail is optional
Lanyard
Handsaw
Sling/biner
Water bladder
Throwline/s

That's nine things...OM...which 4 don't you climb with?

The water bladder is optional for 'normal' times but during 'hot' weather and having climbers up in the tree for extended time it tips towards a safety issue. If there is a monitored water intake then it could be optional.

Believe me...I'm not expecting anyone to have the most high performance harness, rope or helmet. Just pass industry standards and work safely. It's been said that a lot can be made by looking at 'the cut of a man/woman's clothes' Over the years I have made a safe conclusion that undergeared climbers are less skilled than I expect. Not a problem if they want to learn. Too often though there is a part of human nature that is comfortable with where they are, no matter how uncomfortable that place might be. If my take on this comes off as arrogant or snobbish that is not what I mean.
 
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Helmet/basic PPE
Whistle
Harness
Rope w/snap or biner...split tail is optional
Lanyard
Handsaw
Sling/biner
Water bladder
Throwline/s


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Tom,

Where is the basic first aid kit for the harness, at least the big bloodstopper bandage type.

Every single treeclimbing harness in the world in use today should have this type of first aid kit attached to it.

No exceptions.
 
I agree with Axeknot Tom the first aid kits is a must with my guys. I have grow up with a saying never leave your cake in the wind basically saying do not forget to check over all things and better to have than not to have. To many times till I clamped down have I had to go get something for a climber and then truck have way across town again because they forgot something else. Your list is good and can grow.
 
Tom,

Thanks for backing off on the split tail. Not needed for efficiency or safety imo.
If ANSI demands legstraps on the Harness then so be it. Otherwise optional, anecdotes of too-loose buttstrappers aside. Any gear can fail if the operator errs, or uses gear that does not fit their body. Buttstrap fits mine fine.

Handsaw--Silky? You were just joking I know--they are overrated and overpriced.

Water bladder--that's your preference perhaps, but I agree with Dan, ridiculous--"absurd or preposterous, from the Latin for laugh"-- to mandate. I get a quart sent up when I need one and chug em down. Half gallon in summer.

Throwline/s--not often needed. I use my black widow as one, and it doubles as a hand line. Climbing lines can be advanced other ways. I've seen you set them quickly and efficiently and I've seen you and others obsess and waste time with them.

If this was pruning, then polesaw/pruners would be on my list. If removals, then the wirecore is not a bad idea. Not clear if you are specifying for one or the other.

I had to chime in here due to this comment: "I have made a safe conclusion that undergeared climbers are less skilled than I expect."
I'm probably the most undergeared climber you've worked with lately, so my skills must suck. Guess I'll have to quit and find another job.
Hahaha!
 
FA kit is a good addition

Actually, Sui-Slide harnesses are allowed but I hope that will be changed by the Z committee or the new tree harness subcommittee.

Throwlines stay...no discussion. In the long run they increase effeciency and safety. 'Obsessing'...not the word that fits. Being particular and balancing the energy and time spent setting a TIP high from the start of the climb against setting low and advancing does pay off. How much energy is spent advancing a line? How overheated does the climber become? A simple test and race could be made.

No joke about the Silky...there are more, and louder, fans of the Silky than all others. Are we all fooled? Either way, a handsaw is a must...no discussion.

Split tails will increase efficiency...but let's start a new thread to continue that discussion.

After spending many years doing gear inspections at TCC and seeing climbers in the field I stand by my conclusion. Guy, don't take my comments so personally :) There are guys that have come through this project with half the gear that you have and 10% of your skills...only .0001% of your knowledge. They get the work done but they work way too hard and slow doing it.
 
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