Lost a large removal job to a landscaper... Decided to say something.

On removals price is king. what are you gonna say, "my trucks are shinier than his"?
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Price should only be used when all things are equal. Rarely are they equal in what we do when considering what the final product will be. An example, I'm going to level the stumps and cleanup perfectly while you're going to mound up the grindings and the home owner will have to spend an hour blowing off sawdust and raking what was left behind. Equal?
 
Tom I think you handled that fine. Didn't sound like bitching, sounded professional and courteous.

The landscraper will probably start bad mouthing you, but... So what. Every once in a while you step on people's toes.
 
marlinspiker said:
Good clients are willing to pay for peace of mind and a better product.
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Yes, but they have to know you have a better product. How do they know that, unless they allow you to do the job? I find that most people are looking at the bottom line. Once you have worked for them, shown them what you can do, then you can raise the price. This is just what I have noticed in running my business. However, I have only been doing this for about 10 minutes. I am still new at it, and I find that even wealthy, educated people that don't know you, or your company, are looking at the bottom line. Yes, every once in a while your appearance, nice web-site, well written estimate, great advice on proper tree care will shine through. But this takes time, and you have to pay the bills while your waiting for those type of clients to pay you for that work.

I Say give em hell Tom!!
 
How do they know? We try to win them over from start to finish by a professional image that starts with initial engagement. Our calls are answered by a women who has a degree in Horticulture and she schedules a "consult" with one of our arborists. After the initial consult we do not give them the estimate on site but rather take our time to prepare a professional estimate that is extremely detailed. This way when it comes time to haggle price we can remove items rather then dollars. We never alter our price only the scope of work. It takes time to build to this but if you stick your guns and not waver on price you wont be working for free. Sometimes its better to stay home.
 
tomthetreeman said:
I'd like to hear your thoughts on my approach and what I said. I also called the landscaper and left a polite message. Please critique or compliment, I need some perspective here.

Hi _____-

Thanks for the response. I am glad that you have a good relationship with your landscaper, but I am concerned about whether or not they are qualified and/or insured for this type of work. There are many factors to consider, most of which directly affect the overall cost of the work. When landscapers bid on tree work, they can often underbid legitimate tree companies because their payroll/worker's comp/commercial liability rates are MUCH lower. This opens the consumer up to a great deal of liability in the event of an accident. Given the scope of the job at your property, I have to question exactly how a company that spends most of it's time dedicated to lawn care will execute the job. I respect your decision in any event, but I would encourage you to check out the following links:

http://www.isa-arbor.com/publicOutreach/whyHireCertifiedArborist/index.aspx

http://treecaretips.org

I have reached out to ______(landscaper) to get confirmation on how he plans to do the work, whether in-house or with subcontractors. I apologize if this seems intrusive, but I have dedicated much of my career to the betterment of the tree care industry, which includes both public education and reaching out to our partners in the landscape and tree professions. In the end, I just want to make and provide a living wage for my employees, and provide a service on a level playing field, which means protecting our industry and our customers at the same time.

Feel free to call or email with any questions or concerns. Thanks,

-Tom
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Personally I feel you should not cross the sore loser line. As a true professional you should consult when asked, never back peddle your price, and wait for the moment to pounce when they take the cheaper price.meaning many guys are capable of tree work ,not many care or have the skill (that are cheap) about ripping of the gutters. Plus the guy mowing the lawn could be a good contact for business. I only lose my mind if some one or (outfit ) destroys a tree pruning.
 
Sorry to hear about the job Tom. You did good by sending a line out to the home owner. I would just let the landscaper crash and burn on this job. If the HO wants it done cheap, and had been notified about the disparities between us tree guys and scapers, then let them go with a caveat.
 
A lot of people have mentioned that there is no need for you to bend over backwards to sort this out with the client. I agree. I would have just told her that the landscaper's worker's compensation and liability insurance strictly forbids him from taking on such work and that the homeowner may risk taking on the liability when this happens. I don't think you need to ask the landscaper if he has the expertise and skills to do the job--simply ask him if he has the relevant insurance code classifications to legally undertake the work.

If the homeowner wants to still play by black market rules, let them run the risks.
 
OK, to be clear, if you have interpreted this as a win/lose thing, you have missed the point. I am not sore, nor did I lose. We are booked until mid-december. This has nothing to do with getting the job, and everything to do with trying to fix this problem at its core. I have dedicated a large part of my professional life to the ISA with one of the main goals being to educate consumers about the value of proper arboriculture, and I just could not let this one situation slide, given the particulars.

So far the HO has responded well to my information, but there has been no response from the landscaper. We'll see how that end goes. Hopefully he has a reliable sub, and can service the client without exposing them or himself to undue liability. We shall see. I could care less about 'getting the job.' My ideal ending is having the landscaper realize his error, and hire a qualified sub for the work, hopefully learning a lesson through this.

-Tom
 
Tom, I agree with Mark's comments. I felt that the last paragraph was unnecessary to your main thrust. This is a circumstance that justifies taking the risk of losing this client. It may be enough to make the client pause and reconsider. "You miss 100% of the shots you don't take." (Wayne Gretzky). What you said is legitimate and needs to be said, although it would be better said beforehand.

This is a simple sales tactic. One that's used in many businesses. If it results in turning the client around it brings them back to your price point and the potential to negotiate the end sale. There is so much more than the price as the key decider. How do other businesses succeed when they don't have the lowest price (Apple is an excellent example). The reason is the don't sell on price. They identify the prospect's buying motivations and what the value proposition for a given client is. They also have identified who their ideal clients are.

Royce, if you want to be successful in business get past that idea that the only way they can learn about you is by having you do the work for them. That should confirm what you've told them and what others have told them about you. Does your website have testimonials from existing clients? What about other online reviews? When a client says to you "Great job!" ask them if they would put it in writing and/or act as a referral for you. Know how you're service stands apart from your competitors by knowing them. Take a professional sales course. Learn the skill, it'll be the most valuable training you'll ever receive.
 
treehumper said:
...although it would be better said beforehand.
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It's ironic, I do say it to prospective clients when the opportunity is there, but it was not in this case.

To another previous question, we had the job confirmed verbally for about a day (maybe two?) when I got the email about having the landscaper do it.

-Tom
 
Tom, I knew the moment I read your email there would be three different reactions. There would be those who agreed, those who were on the fence, and those who vehemently disagreed. No need to explain yourself buddy. Let 'em yap.

One thing to remember: Even if this were to royally piss off the big client and the big landscaper, it isn't going to be a drop in the bucket compared to the client base you have. And in the end, they'll both realize where you were coming from.

Keep on keepin' on...
 
Please keep in mind that some landscapers are qualified, equipped and insured to do tree work.

Tom good job for trying to open a dialog with both parties.
 
ward said:
?..I would have just told her that the landscaper's worker's compensation and liability insurance strictly forbids him from taking on such work and that the homeowner may risk taking on the liability when this happens.
If the homeowner wants to still play by black market rules, let them run the risks.
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I don't think any of that applies if the landscaper just intends (and who knows if he does? ) to punt the job to a friend-of-a-friend with a legit tree biz; ie. competent and fully insured. Which I think happens more often than not up here, with many "property maintenance" outfits advertising tree removal on their menu of services offered.
Said landscaper in Tom's case has been in business a long time. He undoubtedly has numerous associates who either do treework, or are related to an arborist, etc.
Put me in the "on the fence" category with this one. It would have made a good poll to vote on.
 
I have seen his crews doing a good deal of 'tree work,' so I'm not sure what he plans to do in this case. I've never seen them doing anything of a technical nature. Like I said, I hope he does have a legit subcontractor.

-Tom
 
People today don't care they look at the price an think there gonna get the same quality of work an the day will come when they call you too finish the job because they cant handle it
 
Tom if your finger stopped hovering and you sent that, seems like a hasty move. Your links were weak and off-point and the 2nd half personal and TMI for most owners.
Also some of this is not passing the smell test. If you were not being paid for a consult why did you give one?

If the trees were "80%-90% dead", why did you spend the time convincing them of such an obvious 'hazard'? Could those % be exaggerated, and the 'hazard' too?
Is your need to keep a volume of work coming in skewing your selling away from arboriculture? This bias happened with me and also can happen to the best of companies.

Basing a business, or an industry, on removals seems like a race to the bottom. The industry is skewed up if 'technical tree care' is defined as removing them by self-defined standards.
 
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