isa effectiveness

The only way workers can call for anything is by organizing themselves into a union. This way they are not individually exposed to the risk of losing their jobs by standing up for better practices. Ontario's Ministry of Labour has hired 200 more inspectors to enforce the OHSA. Interestingly the only companies I have heard of being audited are 2 of the more respected ones whose owners teach courses and are actively involved in developing ASWP!

A utility arborist apprenticeship is in the works as well. In many cases, the courses are a reflection of what employers say they need. As there is a recognition of a large enough demand for a specialized set of skills then a full program is developed.

Because we are still in our infancy as an industry the correlation between these differing standards is not really clear.
 
I know of at least one of the companies that is being (been) audited. This is because they have a record of injury/death that bumps them ahead of companies without injury/death records. I have suggested to district MOL supervisiors that they pay a visit to all tree services, not those that are considered legit by paying WSIB etc., but the answer as always is a shortage of manpower.

The Ministry of Labour infact will not respond to calls unless and injury is involved. I have attempt to report companies which have no PPE, I have even emailed photos, but no action is taken
 
the MOL is suppposedly starting with an audit of companies who have experienced a lost time injury within the last 5 years. Therefore they, inspite of hiring 200 new inspectors, have a manpower shortage. I was on a large private residential development (one family, 5 homes, $60 million project) that has more site supervisors, security and safety supervisors then I've seen on bigger commercial sites and they were inspected! Talk about low hanging fruit. I think in many ways the MOL is relying on the MTO to catch those other companies since their vehicles are probably as unsafe as their work practices.
 
Interesting thread, Mr Tree
I believe that any CA that holds there CA only for marketing and sales does belittle the noble base's standard.
I also believe One does not necessarily need a higher education or CA to do a Quality job for a large share of Tree care operations.
Mr Tree is your company an accreditated Tree company? TCI Accreditation requires a level of integrity and best business practices, should the needs of the tree & client exceed the skills or experience of an arborist, A human (or accredited tree company) with integrity would refer it on.

It is in my mind one of the best things that could happen to our industry, and will do a lot more to Raise the Bar then a college degree. It will be a tall order for alot of companies to achieve TCI accreditation, But given its early enrollment it will some day be the higher "company" standard. licensing will probably be mandated before we self regulate through a program such as TCI's.

Where were you on the selling of america that CAs were the beall endall to the industry? Seems the (arrogant)college educated Arborists forgot to market There superiority to the dumb public who can't figure out the difference for themselves.
There is always some shister/bonehead that will ruin a good and positive thing, like CA, or a license, or Accreditation, or a higher education in Urban Forestry.

Dave a lowly CA
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, MN0107, but accreditated
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!
 
(one family, 5 homes, $60 million project)

Ah you mean the property at the end of Country Lane. I know that place from when Carrathurs owned it. I think though its four homes on five properties with one property being for tennis and swimming.
 
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Hey Eric didja see the Pink Floyd article on higher education in the lst TCI magazine? Viewable at www.tcia.org the goal on that one was to outline some easily accessible programs that field arbos can use as a steppingstone to the good stuff.


[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I did now, thanks and it was a good article.

You have invested a lot of your time for the benefit of others, shared your knowledge without an ask for reward, it's a very good thing.

It seems this ISA thing always does this merry go round ... it's different to say the way UK or NZ runs arb. Other countries like here have one recognizable continent wide system and a myriad of places to deliver it. I believe that ISA fills this void in the USA, trying to get 50 states synchronized would be a task but something the ISA can do is provide a common ground standard.

At least if you hire and ISA CA you know they know something.

If some-one has more than that to offer, well advertise it. I'm sure if I was looking for a guy to come see my heritage tree and help it out and I saw BA Sc, CA, Dip hort I'd choose him over just a CA.

What this argument is about (to me anyway) is that the guy with a BA hasn't sat the CA and somewhere somehow that is affecting them adversely or the public are choosing CA's over BA's.

Now here what you can do is get recognition of prior learning ... so if some-one has superior qualifications they show them (pay the fee of course) and pick up the CA without having to do the test as they've already covered the knowledge. In some cases some subjects have to be done coz for example (here) a guy with a BA in plant science certainly hasn't done chainsaw modules or aerial rescue etc ... so they'll get a lot of the academic subjects.

I'm not saying our system is perfect either but the name of the game is get some paperwork.
 
In the interest of playing devils advocate, how exactly does having an advanced degree earned potentially many years ago and with no need for continuing education units to maintain it rank a person in higher steading than someone who is actively engaged in the field and MUST be current on all of the latest developments or be swallowed up by the more qualified competition?

CA is a beginning point and a good one at that. It is not the endall for education in our field, but neither is an advanced degree. I respect equally those who have worked from nothing and desired the education and advancement that the CA offers and then earned it and those who start from schooling and must catch up on the actual field related aspects of climbing, spraying, or estimating at a later date. Either route gives the person potential for greatness or disaster but it depends on the person not the paper.
 
I guess my bone to pick, if you are a true CA...you must show that you are having continuing education, to maintain it. That does force some sembilence of being up to date...its not just taking a test.
 
Mrtree, yes it is the Country Lane property. The 5th house is the family gathering house/tennis/guest house. the kids' houses (3) have their own pools/spas/cabanas. We've been working on the ravine property which the owner has given to the city after restoring it. Elimination of invasive non-native species and planting of native tree and herbacious species. Interesting project.
 
Oh you have no idea, I assume you are working for Steve Snith/Janet Rosen. Man the problems that project has caused. Hopefully the nasty Crimson King at the top of the slope near the storm drain is removed along with the Siberian Elms.

Do you Doug Gilmour much? Nice street, 50 years ago E.P. Taylors Black Angus cattle roamed the fields.
 
Working for Steve. We've left some Norways to maintain canopy for the sugar maples and other shade tolerant species. Those have been girdled where they'll fall without harm. We did drop a huge Norway part way up the slope from the storm drain outlet. Deadwooded the red oak but it's pretty rough.

Does Dougie live there? Or am I missing something???

E.P. had a huge chunk of this area. I'm guessing that Country lane was part of the original estate development along Bayview that created homes such as Glendon, Valleyanna, Vaughn Estate, Sunnydene, etc. The deeds contained restrictive covenants that controlled the siting of the house to the edge of the ravine and style of the architecture.

Assisted Phil Van Wassenaur as well on a Rosedale property. He's got a very cool set up!
 
Doug lives on the road. Or he did, look for the ridiculously good looking wife in the big SUV.

And by the way you are in contravention of OH&S act and Regulations S.110 a and b.
When a hangup occurs....

a hangup being any being a tree not fallen to the ground which has been partailly severed.

I think you have your history mixed up. Some of the homes you mention were built well before EP while others were built by the Carruthers. I think it was three properties.
 
"As for making improvements, how about a harder, longer test. How about not having the bulk of the exam correspond to the study guide. How about making CEUs, particularly some that can be had in Arborist News, harder. How about making many CEUs about learning and involvement. A harder task is to determine comprehension, not the ability to write a multiple choice test. This is where colleges/universities and ASCA come in."

I agree with Rich. College may or may not provide relevant training. As for ASCA, all you need is a college degree and some experience to be a member, and you need to $tay a member to be an RCA. I quit because of that lack of credibility and other issues. I agree that TCI accreditation is a great step for companies. And anyone who says you should be a climber to be an arborist is not very compassionate to the disabled (and I do see a LOT of value in climbing--it helps make me a more competent consultant than many imnsho)

As for maintaining a high standard for CEUs, I agree wholeheartedly. There is growing acceptance of outdoor handson learning experiences--we had a good workshop last month at the southern chapter meeting. Write members of the Society of Commercial Arboriculture about putting on an Aussie-style Arbor Camp--they are working on that right now, if they followed advice received in the last member survey--what did you all suggest?

I write a lot of the questions on the Arborist News tests, and that is not an easy task. CEU's are easily gained through many means that ch3eapen certification imo--30 for one college course (!), raised from 10 in 2005, a horrible move imo. Online infomercials and articles with ridiculously easy t-f tests, etc. As for higher certification, the BCMA has helped distance me from the dozens of CA's around here, because it demonstrates competence at consulting.

Yes if you voice concerns to staff you will likely get pretty much blown off. I have too and I share your concern with the lack of concern shown by some staff. If you really give a hoot then talk to members who serve on the cert committee. If you want to lob hand grenades then say you are too busy to pitch in, I wonder how useful that is.

Thanks Eric, writing that piece was fun and I again encourage others to submit. Did anyone over there write up a review of Arbor Camp? I would love to see that worked into submittable form and would be willing to help with that. There is not enough from the field that is published.

mrtree, how about sharing your knowledge with the readers of tci or arb news? ISA is now offering money for a printable CEU article, and tci pays too. That way 20 or 30,000 would read it instead of this little choir. I mean if you have time to type why not get paid for it?
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geez look at the time; I better switch to decaf.
 
Interesting interpretation of the OHSA rule. I'll run that by him.

As for the development. Yes many of those homes were developed as part of a 300 acre estate development along Bayview. E.P. I believe was well after the fact. I can't seem to find anything online that describes the development. Looks like I'll have to make a pilgrimage to the reference library to refresh my memory on this.
 
" mrtree, how about sharing your knowledge with the readers of tci or arb news? ISA is now offering money for a printable CEU article, and tci pays too. That way 20 or 30,000 would read it instead of this little choir. I mean if you have time to type why not get paid for it?"

Nest time Erk Brudi is in Toronto, there is a definite possiblility of an article. If I end up in Thailand teaching field (biology) research techniques including canopy access, well there is another possibility. I am also looking at soil food webs and compost tea this year. If I get to the Arctic I would like to write about forest canopies that are 18 inches high. Lots of topics, most not traditional though.
 
I for one would love to read your thoughts/experiences with compost teas and the soil food web in relation to the urban forest. have been very interested ever since attending one of Dr Elaine Ingham's seminars at Brisbane botanic gardens last year. Masses of info out there, just very hard to sift the chaff from the grains.
We aren't set up to apply teas as a foliar spray up here but friends in Brissy do it quite a lot and lay claims to brilliant results.
So please if you get the time do write an article.
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The one thing about compost teas, those that contain live organisms, is that you need to apply repeatedly to the soil, unless you start adding organic matter (mulch) to the soil. A very simple idea, but powerful.

That being said I really question the application of compost teas made from non-native organisms. In Ontario worms that are used for composting are non-native and likely are full of non-native organisms in their guts.

Finally if we are trying to replicate nature, then education of consumers is needed. This really means an end to much of landscaping and arboriculture as it is practiced throughout the temperate world where grass is king.
 
I agree, every time I have replaced grass with mulch miracles occur. Healthier trees and soils.
 
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