Insurance company tells homeowner to have limbs cut.

I could perform the work ..you know how it is ..moms getting older ,sons looking out for her bank account I guess ..I could mutilate the tree up a bit and have the job. She still hasn't settled on her boys bucket buddy . Is a matter of me stooping to a level for less money now and cutting more than i feels right . She does respect the work that was performed by us ten plus years ago. She gave me the option to do it ,but turns out and I'm sure it was sonny boy who turned her from open to my recommendation to mom you better tell him to cut that shit back more or I'm calling my buddy..if I had to guess.. I didn't waste more than twenty minutes on site talking to her originally when I was out doing estimates.. like the other job down the road I did get a confirmation on, so I'm not worried about it and a five minute phone call, damn. I spent more time buzzing about it than anything. If she wants to listen to her son and not me that would make sense for them if they're penny wise . I don't need customers who are trying to control me anyway, whether it be blatent or sneaky. I hold my own. I'm happy ! I've been bidding jobs since I'm 16 . I've dealt with lots , it's all part of the game of life. Poker is an awesome analogy for this . David Allan Coe , does a great spin off of "the gambler "by Kenny Rodgers , I'll just tune it in and blow the horn as I drive by.!
 
"Customer" (prospective, aka wishful thinking) called to get a free assessment, which a CA is nuts to give away, imho.

If we base our approach on how beauteous or uglified we think the treee is, we're pulling an unfunny joker (spelled acceptably) from the bottom of the deck. Our bias rigs the game; definitely not Objective (spelled as ASCA does).
As an evaluator, not really by the book, aka professional.
As a contractor estimating freely, it's deuces wild, an unfortunate spin toward removal.
 
Its all an experience ..I appreciate all the thoughts . Guy I've learned more than I knew before and sometimes enjoy bumpy rides ,but I'm searching for smoother paths all time when I choose to be on them.
 
guymayor said:
"Customer" (prospective, aka wishful thinking) called to get a free assessment, which a CA is nuts to give away, imho.

If we base our approach on how beauteous or uglified we think the treee is, we're pulling an unfunny joker (spelled acceptably) from the bottom of the deck. Our bias rigs the game; definitely not Objective (spelled as ASCA does).
As an evaluator, not really by the book, aka professional.
As a contractor estimating freely, it's deuces wild, an unfortunate spin toward removal.
Click to expand...

Nice tact, guymayor. "Ugly" was meant parenthetical: leaning at house (or wherever by the house), competing for canopy space, lopsided, subject of insurance underwriting, of safety concern to the homeowner--things wrong from the first phone call and sighting. I see your point, though, an unfunny joker. -If you let it be a joker. Fine line but you win.

It sounded odd after the "son" enters the scene; the whole subject had changed in that the bucket truck guy maybe nailed the job on a different premise--cut away half of the tree! Now...the son is for real and the elder mom seems to want to do the right thing. Yet the son (might) have his own idea what to do. I'm not sure it's totally about the money but rather maybe who is the decision maker. Sounds a decent lady. Good Luck!
 
Tom has nailed it. When you're on the ground dealing with proposals and estimates your doing sales.

Guy said, "Every issue is a knowledge issue, if you know which facts to tell to who." So you have the knowledge but there's only certain facts that are the right ones to tell her. Selling is not persuading them to buy your service but helping them through the decision process. Understanding what the hidden elements of that process are, is the real challenge. The prime example is her son and his buddy. Did you know that her son would be part of the equation? What would she need to make a decision that would be in your favor?

This may be a lost cause it's not a lost learning opportunity.
 
I made mistakes that I've accounted for during our initial meeting. Have taken away a lot of perspective from this ongoing situation. No lost cause or opportunity. I'd still like to trim her tree . I possibly bend like a branch a bit , but not break . I feel like if I took the one lowest limb off completely back to the trunk she would be happier..long with a few more ,but I'd try to keep them smaller <4 inch if you look at the under corner view I don't think youd need go crazy with too much cutting . If the ins. Co. Isn't satisfied I would be very surprised. Try not to let someone come in and wreck the tree. I could give her a price on something like that and possibly save the tree from further mutilation. Its the son who I have to worry about . For all I know he's playing poker to get me to lower my price. Which is a lost cause. I'll change the scope of the work a bit ,but not my price.
 
treehumper said:
Did you ask her what qualified her to assess the tree? Here's another area TCIA and ISA could be combining forces to work with insurers to hire qualified arborists or consultants that can do tree assessments. It would be tempting to turn around and sue the insurer for the lost economic value of the tree.
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I did. She told me State Farm corp. was setting these rules. The frustrating part is homeowners are afraid to lose insurance, fear is a powerful driver.
 
"She told me State Farm corp. was setting these rules." This is not Moses on Mt. Sinai, this is some office jockey who needs help with reasonable guidelines for tree care, like th described doing.

Removing the entire lower limb would increase the risk to the house. Look at the fork above it!!

Nearsightedness is the biggest barrier we face.
 

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guymayor said:
"She told me State Farm corp. was setting these rules." This is not Moses on Mt. Sinai, this is some office jockey who needs help with reasonable guidelines for tree care, like th described doing.

Removing the entire lower limb would increase the risk to the house. Look at the fork above it!!

Nearsightedness is the biggest barrier we face.
Click to expand...
I understand that .. What's your number I'll have her call you and you can see what I'm dealing with. I can only ride the merry go round for so long before I get dizzy. The limb is long and the road is hard. I could walk away , but if I take the low limb off and take back a few above it .Along the red Guy line I'll call it . which may not be much less than the bucketteer proposed . At least it won't be totally ruined IMO. But IMO what's the point. I don't even think the damn thing needs any cuts ,but deadwooing personally. It about what the h.o. wants ,No. To an extent at least . It takes the arb to show the way of the tree , but if the ears are listening ,but truly dont hear and the eyes think they know what they see is right. What can I do ?
 
guymayor said:
"She told me State Farm corp. was setting these rules." This is not Moses on Mt. Sinai, this is some office jockey who needs help with reasonable guidelines for tree care, like th described doing.
Removing the entire lower limb would increase the risk to the house. Look at the fork above it!!
Nearsightedness is the biggest barrier we face.
Click to expand...

Unreasonable subjectivity must be affecting insurance rules?

Most were tornado tense and phobic for about two years after a 'swarm' of mini-F3s--or one hopscotching big one(s)--demolished homes and businesses where I live in MS, 2001. Two years later we had another round and you wonder if you're jinxed! ha!

The 'South' at least where I am is predisposed, it seems, to the fact these events occur with the result being we don't have perusing agents issuing trim and cut decrees (Yet.. I hope I don't regret stating this). These standing structures--trees--act much like barrier reefs of the shore, absorbing enormous amounts of wind energy which left untethered would rake towns clean. Yes, they fall and lose limbs but much greater damage is mitigated overall. A maimed tree is no longer doing what it was designed to do: be a tree.


As for Reed2179's story the Ponderosa Pine, it makes no sense at all. It's likeness is Pecan (the nut) trees here. They can take unbelievable lighting strikes and respond much the same way Reed2179 describes the P-Pine: "..and BTW- solid wood through and through, just like I suspected. Ponderosa might be the best tree at compartmentalizing I know of. That “crack” had pitch around it tip to root flare, under the rams horns where it sealed over. Not even a burn line was visible. 87’ tall, 28” DBH is what the headstone should read there, what a shame.'' In bad humor, at least no one will get struck by lightning out on the new "golf course".

TT, also, eat some delicious "I told ya so cud" and check with Grandpa's opinion if lucky enough to still have him around!
 
"These standing structures--trees--act much like barrier reefs of the shore, absorbing enormous amounts of wind energy which left untethered would rake towns clean. Yes, they fall and lose limbs but much greater damage is mitigated overall."

Downright poetic, and absolutely true!

"A maimed tree is no longer doing what it was designed to do: be a tree."

This might be temporary, right? How much 'maiming' makes a tree so 'ugly' that it goes from asset to liability? Hard to visualize this.
With any tree, damaged or not, we have to look in the 4th dimension--how it will look in 5 or 50 years, if it gets a little help.
 
Treetopflyer, the lady respects past work from your company as she has called you again; this time for a proposed resolution to her current insurance mandate.

Surely I was never a cocky, dumb jerk once but possibly her son has a trace of these things in his character I dunno. Try talking to him yourself--phone is good enough--about the tree so as to weigh his view, sensibility and manner of dealing.

His mom has been a go-between and that may be misfiring? The arborist objectives in A300 (as Guy stated) may be something unknown to him. He may even be a sensible likable guy, albeit brash. His friend may have a bucket truck and, well, that's all you know other than a vague, I think, proposal to go with it. Not anuff. Carry your knowledge and dignity with you; give him full respect irregardless of consequence and outcome. It may work to serve you. You may get stiffed. Be professional above all.

We need to earn a living but if you're like everyone else, you have ninety-nine other things you need to be catching up on if your proposal falls through. Keep smiling.
 
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I've had one more phone call since with the h.o. She tells me her neighbor wants to be there while I poke around the base of the tree as it originates from his property. This is bullshit to me cause I don't have time to work around his schedule which is very limiting to when i can come as well due to my own busy one. Coupled with how ignorant the woman ( or maybe really her son ) is to my not wanting to remove the low limb completely and less in general than they're looking for. I told her if she doesn't want it done right in my eyes for what I'm asking . Then regrettably I have to walk away.
 
I'm ass-uming the fungi is from the downspout runoff and hopefully has done little to affect the roots; and that that can be determined mostly enough from the homeowner's side. You need Guymanor or some other expert chime in. The lean I'm ass-uming is from Sandy winds. Unless the owner of the tree is paying for anything you are obliged nothing to him of course except for goodwill. Like you said earlier, the property line in essence goes vertical in terms of tree easement. I have three pics for you but they're too big to upload. Need an app that will let me shrink pics taken on ipad? I used to use Windows, hate the app this and app that on ipad. Pic #1 is a 4' dbh un-pruned, oak leaner over a house, #2 is a multi stem limb, house clearance hack job and #3 is an outright multiple trunks sever. I wouldn't dismiss yourself just yet. Re-read all the inputs in this thread. The son's role needs to be identified and respected. The bucket friend is there, too. Keep your door open for the future, the other guy may not work out for them. Hope it goes well!
 
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guymayor said:
Why make another trip just to look at fungi? they will likely tell you little more than you already know.
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My thoughts as well , the probability is they're feeding on a mass of debris breaking down in the ivy bed . the fungus wasn't on the tree itself . just surrounding it . I'm no expert, just a student to the trees and others . I just like to get paid to do my job and I'm not seeing that transaction taking place where I'm comfortable spending any more time. Goodwill or not ,as Guy pointed out in another post and others , my time is valuable . Not that I need others to tell me that , but if you don't get compensation or due appreciation or supreme satisfaction out of something in life's journey ......well sometimes there's a point , but its hard to conclude!
 
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