Insurance company tells homeowner to have limbs cut.

treehumper said:
Insurance co's do inspect properties and do issue work orders like this. I've done several. In one instance the absurdity was requesting pruning of limbs over the house while ignoring a massive dead tulip out front. I did some reductions that satisfied the insurer. Treetopflyer, you've got a bit of a pickle with the added variable of the fungi. Good luck with the foot!
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Thanks T.H..feels like I'm gonna be down for few days. These feet haven't been on the ground for too long in a while ..nothing worth starting an awakening thread about.;) Im lucky and things could.always be worse. I'm hoping the pain subsides soon , lots of nerves in the foot..this sucks..I can't go too long and start losing $. Were you working as an arb for the ins.co. like on staff or for them in a different way?
 
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Definitely worth an Awakenings thread!

TH, didn't it suck to be following directions based on actuarial criteria with no understanding of arboricultural criteria? That's why arborists should have a hand in determining objectives, and be the ones to write job orders aka specs.

Fungi are constant associates; seldom pickling ime.
 
TTF, not working for the insurer but the client. As Guy said, it sucks when it's being directed by someone with no idea. I took to translating the vague specs and applying knowledge of the trees to come up with a viable solution. It really made it palatable for me and less of a stress on the client.
 
Treetopflyer said:
You lost me here or I'll say this is a gray area for me . Can you reword this for my little brain to maybe understand ? :raro2:
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Sure, it wasn't clear. I'm a one-man show who works with low overhead and is geared more to residential property maint/repair than to arbor work. For a time I did a five-acre institutional property set with trees, shrubs and lawn. It served as a contact point for other work and I was otherwise happy to be out of it financially. I *try* to cover a large scope of work for a customer homeowner. In overlapping jobs I can better offset losses in productivity and efficiency. In my 'pre-trees' era work, there would inevitably come a need for tree care. Not a wannabe, I've always climbed since a kid: trees, cliffs, fire escape structures. In trees, I mostly do seasonal pruning and clean-ups and of course, storm clean-outs. I work much like your grandad did, I suppose. It's hard and I don't advertise. My greatest difficulty in my 50s is energy and you can't fake what isn't there. Otherwise, work shows up so that's good. I started out in landscaping and trees nurseries in my 20s but went on into mechanics for about the next twenty.
 
Treetop Flyer - I too, share condolences about your foot injury. Keep the circulation going. I was told that while limbs can "self circulate" the hands and feet need movement of the limbs (arms/legs respectively) to help speed their recovery. Keep water drinking hydrated too, even though it's winter, for 'flow. Oh, by chance anyone mentioned a T shot?

Two other things on the Sweede's tree. ((I once had a Sweedish SVEA stove that ran on white gas, which I never knew what white gas was then. I instead used gasoline from my 1978 honda accord cvcc. Would pull the rubber fuel line off the carburetor and crank fuel into the stove's tank while out camping--was neat.))

As for the fungi, in your pic the roof gutter empties into a downspout.. through its elb0w and the downspout extension to this area. Here in MS, after some good rains in the spring massive fungi will pop everywhere. Of course, if an area stays wet, they'll sort of stay or at least replenish.

Any luck with the tree's owner, the neighbor? If not, reverts back to page 1 advice. Also if not, the variables have changed: NOT my TREE . If insurance co persists and won't budge maybe take a few cuts 2/3 out (ropes); annotate; and done. Go cheap. Get onto other things. I'm not there so tell me scram! but at least my head is emptied. ha!
 
Around here homeowners insurance companies are dropping folks right and left because of the “hazards” the forest presents. I’m in the wildland/urban interface where a lot of those big fires have been over the last 15 – 20 years. I don’t agree with the process but, if this is what it takes for someone to give their forest a little love, so be it. It has created what I lovingly call the “door knocker surge”, kinda what you guys down south run into after a storm from what I’m told. I’ll take the good with the bad.
Did have a funny conversation with an insurance agent; she told me they were giving my (our) industry a “stimulus package”. This was after I questioned the removal of a 200+ year old Ponderosa that the home was obviously built around. Totally healthy, bit of lightning damage from about 60 years ago, anyone familiar with p-pine knows that’s barely a scratch to them. She referred to that wound as a giant crack that would lead to failure. I used a sounding hammer and couldn’t come up with any reason to increment bore. Well, long story short, we cut that bad boy down. She had these owners running scared about fire, falling trees, rotten wood, ect. I just can’t get over why someone would listen to a insurance agent (salesperson) over me. Oh and BTW- solid wood through and through, just like I suspected. Ponderosa might be the best tree at compartmentalizing I know of. That “crack” had pitch around it tip to root flare, under the rams horns where it sealed over. Not even a burn line was visible. 87’ tall, 28” DBH is what the headstone should read there, what a shame.
 
Reed2179 said:
Around here homeowners insurance companies are dropping folks right and left because of the “hazards” the forest presents. I’m in the wildland/urban interface where a lot of those big fires have been over the last 15 – 20 years. I don’t agree with the process but, if this is what it takes for someone to give their forest a little love, so be it. It has created what I lovingly call the “door knocker surge”, kinda what you guys down south run into after a storm from what I’m told. I’ll take the good with the bad.
Did have a funny conversation with an insurance agent; she told me they were giving my (our) industry a “stimulus package”. This was after I questioned the removal of a 200+ year old Ponderosa that the home was obviously built around. Totally healthy, bit of lightning damage from about 60 years ago, anyone familiar with p-pine knows that’s barely a scratch to them. She referred to that wound as a giant crack that would lead to failure. I used a sounding hammer and couldn’t come up with any reason to increment bore. Well, long story short, we cut that bad boy down. She had these owners running scared about fire, falling trees, rotten wood, ect. I just can’t get over why someone would listen to a insurance agent (salesperson) over me. Oh and BTW- solid wood through and through, just like I suspected. Ponderosa might be the best tree at compartmentalizing I know of. That “crack” had pitch around it tip to root flare, under the rams horns where it sealed over. Not even a burn line was visible. 87’ tall, 28” DBH is what the headstone should read there, what a shame.
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Now that just pisses me off!
 
Did you ask her what qualified her to assess the tree? Here's another area TCIA and ISA could be combining forces to work with insurers to hire qualified arborists or consultants that can do tree assessments. It would be tempting to turn around and sue the insurer for the lost economic value of the tree.
 
treehumper said:
Did you ask her what qualified her to assess the tree? Here's another area TCIA and ISA could be combining forces to work with insurers to hire qualified arborists or consultants that can do tree assessments. It would be tempting to turn around and sue the insurer for the lost economic value of the tree.
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That's a good point does anyone know any people in the insurance world. There point of view would be at least good to know.
 
"I took to translating the vague specs and applying knowledge of the trees to come up with a viable solution. It really made it palatable for me and less of a stress on the client."
Nice win/win there; now make it a win/win/WIN by sending the ins co a copy of your specifications, a description of the work done, with pictures, and references showing that your way was defendable. If you impress one agent in a company, they'll circulate your name (and maybe your report) to the others in the company.

Result: better informed insurers, and less gorgeous assets lost to hysteria. O and dream on re ISA/TCIA taking up something like this. If it won't benefit their powerful members, it's a non-starter. This is our job.
 
I got some news from the client today . She got an estimate from her sons friend with a bucket truck . He looked at the tree and said since it withstood sandy it must have good roots. I tell her that i try to focus on the present condition and future condition ,not the past. she seemed to like this..His scope of the pruning in her words was to cut back the limbs to the trunk along her side as explained by the h.o. she likes his ideas as far as the limbs being cut back farther than I purposed to her during an attempted rebuttle explaining some facts about reducing the load and not increasing the risk of failure in the stems ,basically treating the trees in a way that could preserve the dignity while achieving the objective the ins. Co. Is requesting during our phone call. I can tell she thinking all about the money, She yesses me like she understands ,but still wants the limbs cut back more than I'm proposing. As well as her sons bucket buddy willing to take half the tree down for what im charging to take away half the material,its perplexing to her. Not sure if this is going well. Certainly not what I anticipated.. :confused:Any thoughts ?
 
Kenny Rogers had a song...know when to fold 'em???

At some time the homeowner will make the tip...your way or the other way. I've found that it takes a powerful sale to tip them back my way...no matter how good an argument I make.

This is a sales issue not a knowledge issue. Most of us arbos are better on the knowledge and passion side than we are on the sales side.

I learned really late that I while I was learning my craft as an arbo I should have been learning sales and business.

Good luck!
 
Tom Dunlap said:
Kenny Rogers had a song...know when to fold 'em???

At some time the homeowner will make the tip...your way or the other way. I've found that it takes a powerful sale to tip them back my way...no matter how good an argument I make.

This is a sales issue not a knowledge issue. Most of us arbos are better on the knowledge and passion side than we are on the sales side.

I learned really late that I while I was learning my craft as an arbo I should have been learning sales and business.

Good luck!
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Ditto here !
 
Sorry you're getting underbid by a hack. But you don't have to be outcompeted.
If the cutting to the trunk makes the tree more likely to fail toward the neighbors, maybe they should know about this.

Maybe their insurance company should know too. Maybe they'll want to talk to the cheap swede's company.
If the tree's on the lot line, that makes it especially fun.
Every issue is a knowledge issue, if you know which facts to tell to who.

This issue's an outgrowth of the mindset that trees are problems, and arborists fix them (often by killing them).
An unfortunate mindset, imposed on the industry by influential corporations.
Small companies practicing Plant Health Care are at a disadvantage.
It took me 48 years to figure out why it's so dam hard to grow the asset in the tree, and still compete in the market.
 
Well Tom I love Sweden and Swedes; so much that I'm going back to work there again next summer.
But I confess to some bias from my Norwegian heritage. :whistle:
 
Tom Dunlap said:
Kenny Rogers had a song...know when to fold 'em???

At some time the homeowner will make the tip...your way or the other way. I've found that it takes a powerful sale to tip them back my way...no matter how good an argument I make.

This is a sales issue not a knowledge issue. Most of us arbos are better on the knowledge and passion side than we are on the sales side.

I learned really late that I while I was learning my craft as an arbo I should have been learning sales and business.

Good luck!
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I missed yesterday's Monday morning quarterbacking. Backing up a bit, you said she was "set in her ways" and something like, "she's open to whatever you recommend". In the twists and turns of it all, she turns out having a son - we assume - and had a notion all along what she...really wanted. Where was the son up to now and why did she not tell you he suggested 'thus and such' and could do them. But, going along, son has a friend and they together help out mom and amputate primary limbs per her desire. Stupid. But well and good. Or was she making up the story to get herself of the guilt hook.

Rather than play brilliant and pontificate advice can I say how might I have approached this at the start? (p.s. disclaimer: I'm not a hard ball, cut-and-dry, get request and fill work order guy all the time so it's not pat-and-dry always.)

Customer calls me for a...for a what? Evaluation or work. Can I determine what?
I make the contact and see an ugly tree, which I said so in earlier posts. If I think the tree is ugly based on its detractions I now must on the spot (1.) assess what the customer's EXACT motivation is in calling me (2) what their perception and worth/sentiment/memories might go with the tree. Or, do they see it as I do, not aesthetic. Add to this--a threat (3) insurance issue bombs the scene skewing what does the customer NOW want in #1 and #2? (4) Customer's will to pay and to resolve the problem. Of course this is the diabolical moment of the billed estimate and I might pass when looking out for an elder Swede (spelled correctly).

The clock is ticking and I must assess: Why the hell didn't I have my stuff here to go to work right away as she is in limbo? pause. think.
Insurance says "X".
I like trees, even problematic ones "Y".
Is she earnest about follow thru and paying "Z".
Customer just wants "Y" out of her life as far as falling into her living room.
I'm now the employee, ex-advisor. What does SHE want exactly!
She points to limbs on "Y".
I respond to her request to a 14 inch or whatever limb cut; I will do or decline because since she didn't want/like the threat of limbs.
She hedges from cost 000.00 or okays the work "Z".
I hold or fold em, knowing when to walk away knowing when to run.
 
Things aren't always what they seem . What can I tell ya sometimes you think you got a straight and then the opposed shows the royal flush.
 
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