Help a newbie with a VT Hitch.......

B

BearMan

Location
SE Tennessee
I have been trying to learn a VT hitch for about a week now. I have watched numerous Youtube demos and studied and studied..... I just need to ask a few questions to push me over the top. Seems people have a tough time describing it..... So here are some questions.....

The first part is turns around the rope. I think it is three full wraps but it looks like 4 loops on the side. Some people call it three..... some call it four. The top loop tends to fall down with use. Is that correct? Depending on where the first weave starts it can change the wraps. Should it look like four layers or three from the back side with the first weave on the front side?

Next is the first weave.... should the top wrap come down and lay on top of the bottom wrap or go under the lower wrap in a pinch fashion. I think the pinch fashion is part of the Rich H. XT hitch but just want to make sure.

Next is the second cross or weave...... does the top wrap come down and go around the rope and stay on the outside or snake under the other half of rope and switch?

The last weave/ cross happens just before the pulley.... does it reverse the previous cross or just wrap over like the cross above?

I am using 8mm Bee Line and a 11mm Yale Bandit main line with a Rope Wrench and the ABR stiffy. I have played with hitch cords from 24-30" and the 26" seems about right but I can adjust the tie and get any of them to work. Just seems like the hitch can be tied so many different ways that I am not sure what is right. Maybe some rules of thumb to go by......???? How much friction should be on the hitch on the upward motion? Should it fully release or slightly grab and stay tight? I have tied it both ways......

I have looked at the VT, the XT and the Dos Equis (XXT) but most videos I have seen the VT seems to be the common one. I am trying to keep a good gap between the hitch and the RW so I am leaning toward a 24-26" hitch but need some guidance... Thanks in advance.

Barry
 
Hi Barry welcome,

I'm relative new to climbing and found this a useful pictorial when first starting to play with the VT V/VT Sherrill Tree
My experience is that there are a number off variables that depict how many wraps and braids, these could be cordage type, climb line line type, rope sizes, age, climber weight and performance requirements.
There are some experienced fellas here that may be able to help you further.
 
The number of wraps and braids depends on a few factors. Mostly how the the 2 ropes react with each other and your weight. A properly tied hitch of any sort will grab immediately without slipping. When I get new ropes I like to start off with 3 wraps and 3 braids. Some times I may have to add a wrap or take out a braid. On my current set up I'm using 3 wraps and 2 braids. As for the braid the top rope on the wraps needs to go against the rope otherwise your just adding wraps and then you alternate which end touches the main rope. As a note my hitch tuning was self taught and may be wrong, inefficient, or even dangerous. So a second opinion is advised.
 
I like the DosEquis for DRT, but I've been messing with it for SRT with a Rope Wrench and honestly, I don't think I like it, I'll be experimenting with other hitches for that application.

I'm still not entirely convinced it's something new,, but that's what Hook and I are calling it. XXT sure sounds badass, lol.
 
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,,,,,,,,,,,,,. As for the braid the top rope on the wraps needs to go against the rope otherwise your just adding wraps and then you alternate which end touches the main rope. ...............

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So I am correct by thinking most take the tag from the upper wrap and continue the wrap spiralling downward and not crossing under the lower/first wrap?
 
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Hi Barry welcome,

.............. V/VT Sherrill Tree....................

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See?? Just my point..... that diagram shows two different ways to tie it. Does that mean that the rope can spiral or cross?? I am confused here LOL

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I think you'll find ones the Valdotain and the other the Valdotain Tresse or VT. By the text the VT is more predictable and reliable than the V, I only tie the VT so I can't give you an experienced view between the 2. That's the way I read the diagram but stand to be corrected.

Another thread on the VT
 
Bearman, welcome to the buzz! Bro your over thinking, the vt can be tied with as many braids as needed, I mean it's used in rigging operations to capture what you gained! Different ropes act different as well do lengths of the eye to eyes! Find what works! Try,maybe 4 wraps /3 braids on the ground for awhile and climb some (low and slow) and see how it reacts and go down from there if you need to, to be comfortable! Make sure it grabs quickly and breaks smooth and be safe!
 
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Hi Barry welcome,

.............. V/VT Sherrill Tree.........

I think you'll find ones the Valdotain and the other the Valdotain Tresse or VT. By the text the VT is more predictable and reliable than the V, I only tie the VT so I can't give you an experienced view between the 2. That's the way I read the diagram but stand to be corrected.

Another thread on thwe VT

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Now I may be looking at the diagram wrong or my browser is throwing me off...... But isn't the center picture of the VT? Also isn't the center picture the tie with the spiral wrap instead of the "weave" ...... I thought Treese means weave or an alternating of the crossing? Now that leads me to the second question..... Whicb one is finicky? The V or VT?
 
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Bearman, welcome to the buzz! Bro your over thinking, the vt can be tied with as many braids as needed, I mean it's used in rigging operations to capture what you gained! Different ropes act different as well do lengths of the eye to eyes! Find what works! Try,maybe 4 wraps /3 braids on the ground for awhile and climb some (low and slow) and see how it reacts and go down from there if you need to, to be comfortable! Make sure it grabs quickly and breaks smooth and be safe!

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I hear you ArborGreen.... BTW I have wathched several of your Youtubes.... great stuff.

Thanks for the clarification.... I am beginning to see what you mean. I am just nervous that I may be learning the hitch wrong. I have tried maybe 6-8 different ways it can be done and seen extremes from tight to not grabbing. I am just trying to ask the professionals before I put my life on the knot. It is the main thing keeping me from the ground ...LOL I did go out to a tree a few days back and was low and slow..... had my RW jam my hitch just a few feet off the ground. I was just a shook up over the experience and decided I needed to make sure I know the "right" way and what I may have done wrong. At this point I am pretty sure it was my hitch cord that was too long by maybe 4" but I am still learning......
 
Hey BearMan, Welcome...greenie. Glad you got lots of help so quickly. Great bunch. You'll dig it. Hey man, the Southern Chapter Tree Climbing Championship is in Memphis this year. If you've never been to an event like this, they can be a total game changer even from the spectator's viewpoint. I'll have more info soon and again, welcome.
 
[quote....Here's a video from moss on tying an XT http://vimeo.com/38669647

It was pretty helpful to watch and follow along while I was getting the muscle memory for it.

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THANKS ADAM....That was a great video. Best I have seen on the XT so far. I really liked the different angles and the spiraling of the knot. I was able to actually see the crosses and where it was done. I will practice tying it some more and see how I like it. My hitch cord is about 2" shorter than Moss's but I will see how it works. Maybe I will make a longer cord to test it.
 
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Hey BearMan, Welcome...greenie. Glad you got lots of help so quickly. Great bunch. You'll dig it. Hey man, the Southern Chapter Tree Climbing Championship is in Memphis this year. If you've never been to an event like this, they can be a total game changer even from the spectator's viewpoint. I'll have more info soon and again, welcome.

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Yes I am a "greenie" lol.... I am just smart enough to ask and learn first. I am about 5 hrs from Memphis. I would like to know more info and some dates. Keep me in touch. Maybe add my email to your updates..... barryjanzen AT yahoo......

I don't know how much I will actually climb but I have been in Landscape full time for 12 years now and have done some tree work from time to time. I have a good customer that has had used a arborist for a lot of work in the past 7 years. His climber got cancer and quit. It has fascinated me for years and I just wanted to add to my skills. Don't know how it will serve me in the future but I am sure I will see work that I had never seen before. LOL
 
Aw man it's a wonderful artform and you can take it as far as you like. Some only dabble in it...and others are consumed by it or some aspect of it. It will open new doors of creativity and no doubt help you explore levels of frustration you never knew you had. Asking and learning first makes some people feel really vulnerable so hats off man. Glad to have you.
 
Bearman, welcome to the Buzz!

There are surely some knowledgable cats here to get some great information and inspiration from.

As far as your hitch goes, I can understand you wanting to pose the question. As said, the number of variables can make some peoples suggestions good, or not so good...for YOU.

What works like butter for some is sap for others.

I hope you find your dream hitch/climb line configuration ASAP. It took me years, and some of the components I use now weren't even available when I started.

Due to my weight, I have sort of abandoned 8mm hitch cord, thinner climb lines, AND (most recently) the VT hitch. I have found that Imori and a 33" 10mm OP (stitched eyes) works in a 5/1 Michoacan. I love that hitch, as it brings me back to the days of the Blake's hitch (although I used to run a 3/2 Blake).

When I load up a VT, the hitch legs straighten out and the climb line gets a twist. The Michoacan maintains a straight rope path through the hitch and into my slack-tending pulley.

Good Luck!!!..and have fun.
 
Man thanks Ocean...... I appreciate your kind words and suggestions. I have always enjoyed learning new things and my wife says that I tend to obsess over them and go overboard... Lol. I recently had a hunting buddy fall 3 feet through his Summit climber and would have died if he hadn't been tethered by one of my lanyards. His first comment to me after it happened was "thank God you can tie knots!" Obsessing over the hitch seems like useful energy.

Anyways I tried the Michocan....... I only have enough cord for a 4-1 but it does seem to have the ability to be adjustable in tension. I am not sure if that's good or bad. I do like how straight the line runs through it and how reliable it feels. I will make up a longer hitch cord and play with it in the basement test hang........

http://jimknowsknots.blogspot.com/2012/01/michoacan-knot.html?m=1
 
Cool, man. Funny how that saying ATI (always tied in) remains useful. Glad your buddy was tied in, AND that you knew how to tie a knot!

Another thing I found was with stitched eyes, you get more useable hitch cord length (tying the ends is similar, just bulkier). With more length, you can tie it such that the bends that lead into the bottom coil of the hitch can be very close to your slack-tending pulley. This translates into less "sit-back", or how much progress you lose as the hitch is grabbing.

Another variable is how you orient the final cross of the hitch before the legs are attached to the 'biner. I keep it oriented towards my body, just as the carabiners attached to my HC pulley are oriented on my side.

What do you mean by "adjustable in tension"? Do you mean you can re-dress it while under tension, or that you can alter how it grabs by how it is dressed?

Oh, and you're not the only one that "obsesses". My current apartment come with 14' ceilings and the coolest landlady on the planet. I've got permanent lines set!
cool.gif
 
Ocean,

I meant that it can be dressed loose or tight by how the tag ends are pulled. It doesn't seem like it is ever a loose on the upslide as the VT can be but I feel better knowing it can be tweaked on the fly........

I am making my own eye 2 eye cords with locking Brummels and a 6" bury and lock stitching. They are less bulky than a tied end but have extra stiffness the last few inches..... I am enjoying the splicing part of this...... Just learning as I go
 
Ok, so you're building a hitch with 8mm BeeLine and then re-installing the jacket (from your original post)? This cord should break in nicely and minimally change characteristics as the legs soften up a bit.

Or are you using a hollow braid, like Tenex?
 
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