Fu*%face Von Clownstick

Not saying I disagree with anything in that long dissertation, but are you sure he has strip mined and drilled our national parks?
I know garbage cans are overflowing and unhoused people are camping there possibly forever, but can I get the strip mine/drill source?
 
chep said:
Not saying I disagree with anything in that long dissertation, but are you sure he has strip mined and drilled our national parks?
I know garbage cans are overflowing and unhoused people are camping there possibly forever, but can I get the strip mine/drill source?
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Without reading the rant might be referring to the Ambler access road and mining leases adjacent to the boundary waters. Two of the three proposals on Ambler cut through the Brooks range and the proximity of the mining leases is of concern to the boundary waters. The problem with mining, and any extraction, is no matter how much they promise it’s done safely now there is always downstream effects. Always.
 
@Basswood I totally get that point of view on downstream effects. I think that we all are adult enough to recognize the NIMBY effects as well. Extract all we can from 3rd world countries with little to no regard for the planet and those peoples health, or do it on our own soil where restrictions and environment laws do exist if they are being relaxed to make it happen domestically. I honestly think I would prefer the latter. It needs to happen on our own ground in my opinion. The exploitation of other countries and vulnerable people's needs to stop. I'd love to hear other solutions to the issue.
 
OK. So what fuels your saws,skidder?
Pickup trucks etc. Not just about diesel and gas anymore. You running battery tools? Cell phones? Easy to stand back and point fingers.
Our household lives pretty close to the land.
We grow,gather hunt whenever possible. We burn wood to heat our house and hot water. Drink raw milk from grass fed cows, support any local movement possible. Am I living as non consumption as possible, yes but I still consume. I run a sawmill a forwarder a bulldozer a chipper a mini a dozen saws. What's the answer @ Rico? When all my local sawmills amd pulp mills shutter in favor of cheap foreign wood from the Baltic and south America what's a logger to do? We are tending the forest with love and care , but with no markets what do we do. Our work is trying to undo 300 + years of abusive, high grade extraction from the forest. Walk away? Let it turn to "old growth" garbage? People are so distracted and no one knows what's "true" anymore
Im tired of the fingers pointing and accusations. I've stayed off this thread on purpose and find suddenly myself drawn in by this lefty nonsense but here I am. A registered independent voter. Did I vote for the king? No i didn't. But I didn't vote for the other choice either. What's the solution Rico? Who's the next leader? Where the love?
 
chep said:
OK. So what fuels your saws,skidder?
Pickup trucks etc. Not just about diesel and gas anymore. You running battery tools? Cell phones? Easy to stand back and point fingers.
When all my local sawmills amd pulp mills shutter in favor of cheap foreign wood from the Baltic and south America what's a logger to do? We are tending the forest with love and care , but with no markets what do we do. Our work is trying to undo 300 + years of abusive, high grade extraction from the forest. Walk away? Let it turn to "old growth" garbage? People are so distracted and no one knows what's "true" anymore
Im tired of the fingers pointing and accusations. I've stayed off this thread on purpose and find suddenly myself drawn in by this lefty nonsense but here I am. A registered independent voter. Did I vote for the king? No i didn't. But I didn't vote for the other choice either. What's the solution Rico? Who's the next leader? Where the love?
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The definition of insanity- doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results....
 
chep said:
OK. So if you aren't insane then what's the answer. Thats vague nonsense
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My answer is pretty clear here. As long as humans continue to treat Mother Earth as nothing more than a resource to fuel our lifestyle of commerce, comfort, and convenience we will continue to guarantee her destruction (as well as our own).

Your post #8,472 was full of the same old same old laundry list of reasons why we can't possibly stop the usual modus operandi that has gotten us to this point. I applaud you for doing what you can do lessen your impact, but we both know that what you or I do in our day to day is an insignificant drop in the bucket.
 
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chep said:
OK. So what fuels your saws,skidder?
Pickup trucks etc. Not just about diesel and gas anymore. You running battery tools? Cell phones? Easy to stand back and point fingers.
Our household lives pretty close to the land.
We grow,gather hunt whenever possible. We burn wood to heat our house and hot water. Drink raw milk from grass fed cows, support any local movement possible. Am I living as non consumption as possible, yes but I still consume. I run a sawmill a forwarder a bulldozer a chipper a mini a dozen saws. What's the answer @ Rico? When all my local sawmills amd pulp mills shutter in favor of cheap foreign wood from the Baltic and south America what's a logger to do? We are tending the forest with love and care , but with no markets what do we do. Our work is trying to undo 300 + years of abusive, high grade extraction from the forest. Walk away? Let it turn to "old growth" garbage? People are so distracted and no one knows what's "true" anymore
Im tired of the fingers pointing and accusations. I've stayed off this thread on purpose and find suddenly myself drawn in by this lefty nonsense but here I am. A registered independent voter. Did I vote for the king? No i didn't. But I didn't vote for the other choice either. What's the solution Rico? Who's the next leader? Where the love?
Click to expand...
It seems like the only solution is one that will involve some discomfort for all; growing pains if you will.

The whole world needs to slow the fuck down. We really need to put some thought into what the best moves are, but slowing down everything that we are doing is the paramount first step. I know that most folks don't wanna hear that, but a large driver of all of this nonsense is so many people wanting more and more, and wanting it right now. I understand that this slowing down period will almost certainly cost us a lot of the benefits of modernity, but continuing with business as usual seems like it is going to cost even more in the not-so-long run.

I also understand that there is a loud and obstinate opposition to this line of thinking, hence our current predicament.
 
It seems that we have collectively forgotten that there was a time when the resources needed to survive were not seen as ours, but something that belonged to something bigger than any one person. We didn't share these resources out of some hippie-dippy-communist notion of egalitarianism, we shared resources because it was necessary for the survival of the tribe. Some folks were granted various advantages; genetic advantages, geographical advantages, lucky breaks, etc. Some groups were able to use their advantages to take more for themselves, but that doesn't mean that any of what was taken by the first takers inherrently belongs to them, they just took it like a bully stealing another kids lunch money. All ownership comes from these original thefts, and whether or not we have matured sufficiently as a species, we must begin the process of awakening to our collective brotherhood, and remember that we must share the finite resources of this planet for the sake of our own survival. None of the people who have lots of power seem ready to share, so we must find a way to shake loose the grip they have on things. This can only work when enough people come together to make it so.
 
chep said:
@Basswood I totally get that point of view on downstream effects. I think that we all are adult enough to recognize the NIMBY effects as well. Extract all we can from 3rd world countries with little to no regard for the planet and those peoples health, or do it on our own soil where restrictions and environment laws do exist if they are being relaxed to make it happen domestically. I honestly think I would prefer the latter. It needs to happen on our own ground in my opinion. The exploitation of other countries and vulnerable people's needs to stop. I'd love to hear other solutions to the issue.
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Yeah I agree about the NIMBYism, it’s absolutely a fault in a way. A lot of your points are the gorilla in the room that no one really wants to talk about. But I don’t think it means we need to increase production here. I think a great start would be the cut the exportation of the resources we’re already extracting without expanding. Keep more of what we are already producing. I don’t agree at all with lightening up restrictions or Environmental laws. If extraction is to happen here, it has to be held to the absolute highest standard and it has to be accepted that the vast majority of the country is off limits and downstream effects. Even with our tight law’s catastrophic events happen. I do think a well thought out, diversified power grid here could be part of that solution. I don’t believe that “green energy” is the solution on its own, but as a component absolutely. The toughest one to accomplish would be pressuring international extractions to do it in a better way both environmentally and socially.

Great podcast on the subject of diversifying energy sources. I think who the individual works for will surprise some people.
 
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