Fu*%face Von Clownstick

I'm no pacifist, and violence can be a valid response, but this guy gets it right, the whole thing is good but if you skip to 19 minutes in, he sums up how I feel about where money should be spent to end conflicts. Every terrorist we kill has brothers, sons, nephews that will want revenge. No one wants revenge for getting access to food, water, and economic opportunity. At some point you have to ask what we want our American machine to produce, more terrorists, or more trade partners...

 
FreeFallin said:
I'm no pacifist, and violence can be a valid response, but this guy gets it right, the whole thing is good but if you skip to 19 minutes in, he sums up how I feel about where money should be spent to end conflicts. Every terrorist we kill has brothers, sons, nephews that will want revenge. No one wants revenge for getting access to food, water, and economic opportunity. At some point you have to ask what we want our American machine to produce, more terrorists, or more trade partners...

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Problem is, Islamists don't want more Applebee's. They simply want you dead. Not because they're poor, but because you are 1: Non-Muslim, and 2: American. Unless and until you convert to Islam you are fair game.

As far as giving them money:cachetada:, look at Europe. They have elaborate and generous welfare systems and offer plenty of economic opportunity to muslims, and the attacks continue. We (civilized people) keep offering goodies and "dialogue", and they keep plowing semis through crowds of shoppers.

At some point we will have to shoot the ideology out of them or watch our great-grandkids face Mecca to pray. As Caesar said, "Let them hate, so long as they fear."
 
You may have missed the point of the video, we have been "shooting the ideology out of them" for several hundred years now, how's that workin' out for ya?

Do you think farmers, goat herders, and shop owners suddenly want to leave their families and blow themselves up out of boredom? Or maybe for their religion that is completely peaceful for the vast majority of its adherents?

ISIS is a response to the fear you say we need to create more of. The idea that "those other people" only want us dead, and therefore the only option is for us to make them dead, is the exact fear that ISIS is peddling on all sides of this conflict. I am not hearing any freedom ringing, or liberty and justice for all in that message, I just hear ISIS propoganda and I'm not buying.

We used our position of power in the world to create this fear response with our preemptive strikes that disrupted the entire region, we are the only ones that can dismantle the monster we built. We need to stop doing the same thing and expecting a different result.
 
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Levi.CO said:
I think that's a classic indicator of insanity, if I'm not mistaken.
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I've never understood people buying that definition of insanity. Makes zero sense, although I get its appeal.

Examples we can relate to: if you swing an axe at a tree 99 times maybe the same thing happens. But eventually, perhaps on the 100th swing, something drastically different happens and that tree goes down. Or a cold chainsaw might take 10 pulls to start. So first 9 pulls nothing, but I don't think I'm insane to expect a different result on the 10th. Just sayin, it's a shit definition.

All I'm saying is that eventually the "Religion of Peace" is going to bring the fight to us (on a larger and more frequent scale than Orlando or San Bernardino or even 9/11) and then you have a choice to make. In the meantime, get used to weekly truck/bomb/gun attacks like the one THIS VERY MORNING in Egypt. It's literally a running joke among my co-workers: "Oh, another terrorist attack? Golly, I wonder who could be behind it?" ;) Ignorance is bliss but I'll bet willful blindness is even better.
 
Also, I did not miss the point of the video. I think he is thoughtful, kind, sincere and wise old man. He has noble intentions. But his mistake is to apply reason and rationality to an ideology which neither supports nor requires it.

I get that 90% of muslims are peaceful. It's that 10% (or whatever) that does all the killing that I'm concerned with. And there is, predictably, a deafening silence from the 90% when the 10% kills "in the name of Allah". He and others can't seem to wrap their heads around the fact that NO MATTER WHAT WE DO OR SAY that 10% still wants us dead. Doesn't matter how nice we are or how much aid we shower them with- they will kill you and your kids.

As for shooting the ideology out of them- we have not been doing it for hundreds of years. Most Americans couldn't name two facts about Islam or Al Qaeda before 9/11. So we've really only been at this halfheartedly for about 15 years. But I'd admit that you can't eradicate an idea with weapons. Seems to me that it can be contained though. Sort of like with Nazism. Sure, there are still Nazis in Europe and here too but they are underground and far less influential than they were 70 years ago. They are rightly laughed at. Not sure the same tactic would work against these nut jobs, but I don't think hugging it out is gonna work either.
 
Bucknut said:
I've never understood people buying that definition of insanity. Makes zero sense, although I get its appeal.

Examples we can relate to: if you swing an axe at a tree 99 times maybe the same thing happens. But eventually, perhaps on the 100th swing, something drastically different happens and that tree goes down. Or a cold chainsaw might take 10 pulls to start. So first 9 pulls nothing, but I don't think I'm insane to expect a different result on the 10th. Just sayin, it's a shit definition.

All I'm saying is that eventually the "Religion of Peace" is going to bring the fight to us (on a larger and more frequent scale than Orlando or San Bernardino or even 9/11) and then you have a choice to make. In the meantime, get used to weekly truck/bomb/gun attacks like the one THIS VERY MORNING in Egypt. It's literally a running joke among my co-workers: "Oh, another terrorist attack? Golly, I wonder who could be behind it?" ;) Ignorance is bliss but I'll bet willful blindness is even better.
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In your examples, everytime I swing my axe, I see chips fly and the notch that is going to fell the tree gets bigger, that result is just as predictable and expected as the larger and different result the process will produce. Same thing with my chainsaw, I understand that it's cold, and each pull produces the expected result of warming the block until the ultimate result can be achieved. Both of these prove the concept.

Bombing the middle east on the other hand has never produced anything but bigger problems and moving us further from our ultimate goal of stability and peace for America.

It's like hitting the tree and the chainsaw with a hammer and saying "just wait, this is going to do something different this time"

Saying that our current approach is not working is a far cry from saying ISIS is not dangerous. Like I said, we created the monster, we have to dismantle it. That is going to take military to stop the danger we created, and just as important it's going to take more work and resources to give these folks a reason to stop fearing us and enable them to get back to farming, herding, and shopkeeping.

Violence creates more violence, political and humanitarian aid creates farmers, etc. What wold you like to create in the middle east for your grandkids today?
 
Bucknut said:
...And there is, predictably, a deafening silence from the 90%
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I agree with a lot of what you are saying.
The deafening is not from Muslims, it's from us. After every attack there is a massive outcry from emams around the world condemning the violence, there is a worldwide campaign called "Not in my name" that Muslims are running against ISIS, and when any attack happens the local Muslim community has been first on the scene to clean up, donate, and help the victims. If you are not aware that this is happening then you can't really blame Muslims for being deaf.

No one is suggesting a hug out, military has to be a component of the larger plan, we have already destroyed any chance at ending aggressions instantly.
 
Let them get back to herding?

Not even your man Chris Matthews thinks this is a winning strategy:

 
Just make the sand glow already

Still waiting for his destroy ISIS on day one secret plan and the 60 plan from the Generals


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The tumble and fall..

Our senator cancels his town meeting(s) when a shitload of constituents demand his presence. His website no longer taking opinions, all calls diverted.

Step 2?
This crowd isn't waiting for the next election. Good time to rally and use your skills...from transport to phone calls to provisions. We have real cops, trained medics, lawyers, teachers, and vets. A few impressive tribal councils, and all real Americans. Not the alt.right treasonous trumpies.

From a historical perspective our times are impressive. If war doesn't result overseas on many fronts, there's certain to be one here and from that, real nation building begins, minus the right this time because it's them who brought us here, not "that black Kenyan".
 
oakwilt said:
The tumble and fall..

Our senator cancels his town meeting(s) when a shitload of constituents demand his presence. His website no longer taking opinions, all calls diverted.

Step 2?
This crowd isn't waiting for the next election. Good time to rally and use your skills...from transport to phone calls to provisions. We have real cops, trained medics, lawyers, teachers, and vets. A few impressive tribal councils, and all real Americans. Not the alt.right treasonous trumpies.

From a historical perspective our times are impressive. If war doesn't result overseas on many fronts, there's certain to be one here and from that, real nation building begins, minus the right this time because it's them who brought us here, not "that black Kenyan".
Click to expand...

Ummm.......huh?

I think I got it: you're mad your senator won't volunteer to be subjected to 2 hours of vile unhinged statists screaming at him. So, natch......

You seek to assemble a commune of fellow travelers to.......

Start a civil war. Or something?

Oh, and something about a black Kenyan.

Gosh, I can't imagine why we have Trump.
 
And nation building without the right? No mystery where that road leads; Venezuela. Leftists are doing a super bang up job there. Oil out the wazoo and people literally starving in the streets. Because social justice. Broken record.
 
I've been saying that for years.

Organizing the disenfranchised is too easy. All that's required is downloading townhall schedules and home addresses of the (non)elected reps. Petitions for redistricting back to fair boundaries and recalls for the bible-thumping right wingers has 'em on the run.
 
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