- Location
- Central Hardwood Belt, USA
dual petzel ascensions
- Thread starter Colin
- Start date
- Location
- Central Hardwood Belt, USA
Re: Petzl Dual Ascender Build
That was version 1,
I beat the snot out of those for well over a year, they were awesome.
I ended up sending them to ISC in Wales, who then sent them on to Gary Storrick for inclusion into his permanent collection, a new subsection of his expansive collection, headed under "Single Handled Dual Ascenders."
Sending this version off gave me the incentive to make the next version, which were to include a couple of new updates.
Stay tuned:
That was version 1,
I beat the snot out of those for well over a year, they were awesome.
I ended up sending them to ISC in Wales, who then sent them on to Gary Storrick for inclusion into his permanent collection, a new subsection of his expansive collection, headed under "Single Handled Dual Ascenders."
Sending this version off gave me the incentive to make the next version, which were to include a couple of new updates.
Stay tuned:
Attachments
- Location
- Central Hardwood Belt, USA
Re: Petzl Dual Ascender Build
On this one, chop sticks and a tongue depressor worked excellently in aligning the sides perfectly while the M1 sealant-adhesive set up, about 6 hours.
I chose to whip the handle in 1/2" tube webbing. I guess this handle treatment is optional. I thought the Zing-It line, whipping would add strength and integrity, and I'm sure it does, but it becomes so strong over-the-top, I would only use it again from purely a comfort standpoint.
On this one, chop sticks and a tongue depressor worked excellently in aligning the sides perfectly while the M1 sealant-adhesive set up, about 6 hours.
I chose to whip the handle in 1/2" tube webbing. I guess this handle treatment is optional. I thought the Zing-It line, whipping would add strength and integrity, and I'm sure it does, but it becomes so strong over-the-top, I would only use it again from purely a comfort standpoint.
Attachments
- Location
- Central Hardwood Belt, USA
Re: Petzl Dual Ascender Build
That's what defines VERSION 3,
it uses the new black and yellow Ascensions, and no whipping on the handle.
Here's a number of images, and final editions of improvements to the redundant safety features.
Condensed version of the build.
That's what defines VERSION 3,
it uses the new black and yellow Ascensions, and no whipping on the handle.
Here's a number of images, and final editions of improvements to the redundant safety features.
Condensed version of the build.
Attachments
- Location
- Central Hardwood Belt, USA
Re: Petzl Dual Ascender Build
Notice how in this first image, I eye-spliced a short piece of 3 mm dyneema and sunk it in between the ascenders, held firm between them and by the bonding power of the ethicone. It gives a mini attachment point, more detail on that in a minute.
Note in the bottom image, I have left an opening between the two top-holes,
a loop of 3 mm dyneema could be captured by the pin if one were to use that as a backup prussik.
Notice how in this first image, I eye-spliced a short piece of 3 mm dyneema and sunk it in between the ascenders, held firm between them and by the bonding power of the ethicone. It gives a mini attachment point, more detail on that in a minute.
Note in the bottom image, I have left an opening between the two top-holes,
a loop of 3 mm dyneema could be captured by the pin if one were to use that as a backup prussik.
Attachments
- Location
- Central Hardwood Belt, USA
Re: Petzl Dual Ascender Build
But here is the true essence of this ascender.
The magic lies within the DUALLY-REDUNDANT backup safety features.
This negates the need for a secondary prussik.
(Earth shakes....)
The entire Story revolves around this one, key point in the November '09 TCIA article, The Single Handled Dual Ascender: a concept device. It was basically all about this central safety feature that is new. The dual ascender is nothing new at all. And the problem of backing the dual ascender up has always been a problem until I figured it out as shown in these next 6 photos:
But here is the true essence of this ascender.
The magic lies within the DUALLY-REDUNDANT backup safety features.
This negates the need for a secondary prussik.
(Earth shakes....)
The entire Story revolves around this one, key point in the November '09 TCIA article, The Single Handled Dual Ascender: a concept device. It was basically all about this central safety feature that is new. The dual ascender is nothing new at all. And the problem of backing the dual ascender up has always been a problem until I figured it out as shown in these next 6 photos:
Attachments
- Location
- Central Hardwood Belt, USA
Re: Petzl Dual Ascender Build
This piece prevents the cams from EVER being able to fully open. Thereby blockin the ability of the cam to allow a rope to pass. Period. That is one redundancy.
The second redundancy is the PTO Hitch pin through the top holes. This prevents the rope from EVER being able to escape the ascender shell, even if one or both of the ascender cams is released, either intentionally or not.
At the same time the dual ascender now has adjustability, up and down, instantly and without ANY appreciable resistance (friction).
The left and right cams can be operated ONE-HANDED, both together, or individually of one another. I will end on that most important point; ease of use and response and safety and versatility and swiftness and ease and confidence.
For me, I make money climbing trees so the more efficient, the more money,
ya know?
This PIN, that blocks the cams from opening beyons a certain point allows the climber to instantly adjust-down, but on the up-ascent, of course, is where the paired ascenders really kick .
You are 1:1, huge advantage, and an ascent device that will self-tends if you want it to. You heard me. No slack tending.
(Earth shakes again)
PETZL AND ISC-WALES,
You have been served all this information on a silver platter, personally, by me.
Who in our industry is going to step up and create The Single Handled Dual Ascender,
Helllooooooooooo,
Anyone,.......
Can you hear me???????
And thank you for allowing me to go, beginning-to-end on that without interruption. It's taken me weeks to pull all the photos from all the three eras of evolution.
Are there.......
..... any questions? Over and out.
This piece prevents the cams from EVER being able to fully open. Thereby blockin the ability of the cam to allow a rope to pass. Period. That is one redundancy.
The second redundancy is the PTO Hitch pin through the top holes. This prevents the rope from EVER being able to escape the ascender shell, even if one or both of the ascender cams is released, either intentionally or not.
At the same time the dual ascender now has adjustability, up and down, instantly and without ANY appreciable resistance (friction).
The left and right cams can be operated ONE-HANDED, both together, or individually of one another. I will end on that most important point; ease of use and response and safety and versatility and swiftness and ease and confidence.
For me, I make money climbing trees so the more efficient, the more money,
ya know?
This PIN, that blocks the cams from opening beyons a certain point allows the climber to instantly adjust-down, but on the up-ascent, of course, is where the paired ascenders really kick .
You are 1:1, huge advantage, and an ascent device that will self-tends if you want it to. You heard me. No slack tending.
(Earth shakes again)
PETZL AND ISC-WALES,
You have been served all this information on a silver platter, personally, by me.
Who in our industry is going to step up and create The Single Handled Dual Ascender,
Helllooooooooooo,
Anyone,.......
Can you hear me???????
And thank you for allowing me to go, beginning-to-end on that without interruption. It's taken me weeks to pull all the photos from all the three eras of evolution.
Are there.......
..... any questions? Over and out.
Attachments
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
Re: Petzl Dual Ascender Build
So TM, you saw the CMI dual ascender thread, right?
So TM, you saw the CMI dual ascender thread, right?
- Location
- Central Hardwood Belt, USA
CMI Dual Ascender ?
Huh,....
Whaaaa??
You mean the Arboristsite thread from 8 years ago where we discussed the pairing of two CMI's.
That was my <u>very first set</u> of dual ascenders.
Those were single handled duals. That was back in the days before digital cameras or even cell phones! Here's a pictire of them in use, back in '94 before I knew what a climbing helmet was.
See them right between me and the top of the post?
I actually had to invent them for this particular job and really took a liking to them once they were together. I lost em somewhere along the line, but thanks for the blast from the past.
The big buzz in the climbing industry at that time was the split-tail. I was all about climbing in 1:1 and the CMI Single Handled dual ascenders let me do SRT and DbRT, and of course, 2:1 DdRT if I wanted, basically 2:1 or 1:1 interchangably. As I remember, they could accept a caribiner through the top holes, like only a Petzl Attache' biner, or a kong stainless steel non-locker would work, though. See, way back when, I would back up the duals with a prussik.
I took out the pivot pin on a left and right CMI, and carefully holding all components in place, reinserted a double-length steel pivot. This was peened thoroughly to hold the two shells as one, on a common axel.
Another hole was drilled in a lower part of the handle and another authoritative rivet through that, it was bare-bones, but it was nonetheless sweet.
I climbed on those for about three years before Kong came out with their dual handled dual for like 8 years and only in the last few years have I learned of the excellence that an excellently done super safe dual really is. It's the gold and black,
So how did that ancient thread kick up?
Bring us a link, Blink.
Huh,....
Whaaaa??
You mean the Arboristsite thread from 8 years ago where we discussed the pairing of two CMI's.
That was my <u>very first set</u> of dual ascenders.
Those were single handled duals. That was back in the days before digital cameras or even cell phones! Here's a pictire of them in use, back in '94 before I knew what a climbing helmet was.
See them right between me and the top of the post?
I actually had to invent them for this particular job and really took a liking to them once they were together. I lost em somewhere along the line, but thanks for the blast from the past.
The big buzz in the climbing industry at that time was the split-tail. I was all about climbing in 1:1 and the CMI Single Handled dual ascenders let me do SRT and DbRT, and of course, 2:1 DdRT if I wanted, basically 2:1 or 1:1 interchangably. As I remember, they could accept a caribiner through the top holes, like only a Petzl Attache' biner, or a kong stainless steel non-locker would work, though. See, way back when, I would back up the duals with a prussik.
I took out the pivot pin on a left and right CMI, and carefully holding all components in place, reinserted a double-length steel pivot. This was peened thoroughly to hold the two shells as one, on a common axel.
Another hole was drilled in a lower part of the handle and another authoritative rivet through that, it was bare-bones, but it was nonetheless sweet.
I climbed on those for about three years before Kong came out with their dual handled dual for like 8 years and only in the last few years have I learned of the excellence that an excellently done super safe dual really is. It's the gold and black,
So how did that ancient thread kick up?
Bring us a link, Blink.
Attachments
- Location
- Central Hardwood Belt, USA
Re: CMI Dual Ascenders?
Well, that is certainly not the thread I was talkin about.
Most interesting.
It is about frickin time. Only been 16 years waiting for a top-hole accessible single handled dual ascender.
Could this be the one?
Let's continue the discussion here.
Well, that is certainly not the thread I was talkin about.
Most interesting.
It is about frickin time. Only been 16 years waiting for a top-hole accessible single handled dual ascender.
Could this be the one?
Let's continue the discussion here.
- Location
- Haddonfield, nj
Re: CMI Dual Ascenders?
That's it.
I'm buying one.
Get on it Boston. Make it happen cappin'
That's it.
I'm buying one.
Get on it Boston. Make it happen cappin'
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
Re: CMI Dual Ascenders?
Thas what I'm sayin'!!!
Thas what I'm sayin'!!!
- Location
- Haddonfield, nj
Re: CMI Dual Ascenders?
The man works fast. Already ordered it for me. Gotta love Mayer power products!
The man works fast. Already ordered it for me. Gotta love Mayer power products!
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
Re: CMI Dual Ascenders?
You and Cary are about tied for TB Top Gear Weenie (Non-motorized division).
You and Cary are about tied for TB Top Gear Weenie (Non-motorized division).
- Location
- North of Boston
Re: CMI Dual Ascenders?
All set bro!
All set bro!
- Location
- Central Hardwood Belt, USA
- Location
- Central Hardwood Belt, USA
Re: add : Kong Dual Ascenders
Here's a side view:
Notice how the handle of the Petzl is slightly curved? This shows up as an advantage when doing crawlovers.
Also, in the first of these last two shots, see the FLANGED RAIL on the Petzl's spine,
and the ice-skate rail on the KONG. Ice skate rail could collapse right or left, resulting in a knuckle or finger crunching during the said limb crawlover. Not acceptable.
The wider spine rail seems to work better, with less chance of mishap. I have yet to crunch a knuckle or finger, but I'm only 2 weeks on the Kong Trender Single handled Dual vs two years on the Petzl.
It just makes sense to have a flanged rail, curved to conform to what you're crawling over, which is always convex, so you make the handle at least slightly concave. You can see how I tried to cut a concave into the Kong handle, for what that was worth.
If CMI were to incorporate this set of improved features, I might be willing to give them a test drive.
Right now, though, I have 4 sets of ascenders, so no need for a fifth.
The Petzl is strong in ergonomics, and it is more compact than the Kong. As well, the Kong is strong in it's unique, onboard dually redundant safety mechanism, & very fast on and off, comfortable and the handle easily modded.
A hybridized version by CMI would create a uniquely 'Treeguy' tool and forever change the technical tree climbing landscape. It's been a long time coming.
As well this device has the potential to dominate the Single Handle Dual Ascender market, at which present time, there is none. Competition is somewhere ahead, around the corner, so CMI, even though you have no competition on this one, at this time, you still need to set your own bar very high.
<font color="red"> CMI, we appreciate your efforts thus far. </font>
Here's a side view:
Notice how the handle of the Petzl is slightly curved? This shows up as an advantage when doing crawlovers.
Also, in the first of these last two shots, see the FLANGED RAIL on the Petzl's spine,
and the ice-skate rail on the KONG. Ice skate rail could collapse right or left, resulting in a knuckle or finger crunching during the said limb crawlover. Not acceptable.
The wider spine rail seems to work better, with less chance of mishap. I have yet to crunch a knuckle or finger, but I'm only 2 weeks on the Kong Trender Single handled Dual vs two years on the Petzl.
It just makes sense to have a flanged rail, curved to conform to what you're crawling over, which is always convex, so you make the handle at least slightly concave. You can see how I tried to cut a concave into the Kong handle, for what that was worth.
If CMI were to incorporate this set of improved features, I might be willing to give them a test drive.
Right now, though, I have 4 sets of ascenders, so no need for a fifth.
The Petzl is strong in ergonomics, and it is more compact than the Kong. As well, the Kong is strong in it's unique, onboard dually redundant safety mechanism, & very fast on and off, comfortable and the handle easily modded.
A hybridized version by CMI would create a uniquely 'Treeguy' tool and forever change the technical tree climbing landscape. It's been a long time coming.
As well this device has the potential to dominate the Single Handle Dual Ascender market, at which present time, there is none. Competition is somewhere ahead, around the corner, so CMI, even though you have no competition on this one, at this time, you still need to set your own bar very high.
<font color="red"> CMI, we appreciate your efforts thus far. </font>
Attachments
Treespotter
New member
- Location
- Houten, The Netherlands
Are you referring to a solid 80 kgs block and comparing that to a real climbing situation using ropes with a little stretch, anchor points that are not rigid and a person that even if he wanted is nowhere comparable to a solid block????
